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 Post subject: New/old 14 turbo owner
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 8:08 am 
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Joined: Thu May 17, 2018 5:24 pm
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Location: New Hampshire
Hello fellow Hobie sailers.
I recently bought a 1984 14 turbo with trailer for next to nothing. I have sailed it twice now and yep I'm hooked! It came with everything, Jib, main, trap wires, 1 harness.
It sat under trees for 17 years. It had moss and lichen growing on the tramp and hulls but for $200 I figured I couldn't lose. I spent a few hours with a scrub brush and simple green and it looks great! The tramp is ok, the sheets were useable for the first sail but I have since replaced the mainsheet, the furling sheet for the jib and there was no downhaul line so I bought 5' of 3/16 for that. The main sheet was not routed correctly but from pix on the forums I corrected that. On my 2nd sail I was having a horrible time holding the rudders straight. I literally had 2 hands on the walking stick and my foot against the side to keep it steady. Needless to say it wasn't as much fun as you would hope for. After reading I found the alignment is way off and the adjusting bolts on the ends of the tiller cross bar were loose allowing the ends to slide in /out while sailing. The bolts are bent and the plastic washers are pretty worn out. I also found both cams are broken and the upper gudgeon on one side is broken. So , I have ordered the cams, and gudgeon.

I think it has fiberglass rudders as they are black and on one side the fibers are showing. What is best to repair the rudder surface? Gel coat or just prime/ paint them?

Wow! Sorry about the long post

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 9:22 am 
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Location: Clinton Lake, Kansas
good score for $200!

Those (black) rudders are EPO (worth $200 alone)
you can search here for various methods of restoration of EPO's
never thought about shooting them with black gelcoat, I like that idea
I personally have tried appliance paint, with little success

Let us know how she sails after you get your rudder and steering rebuilt

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1984 H16 "Mister Rogers"
1984 H14 "Sundays"
2000 H20 "Jet"
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 10:08 am 
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Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 10:33 am
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Location: Clinton, Mississippi
Great boat for what you paid!

You didn't mention waxing the hulls....do that while they're good and clean to help keep them that way.

Gudgeon: Search these forums for problems with gudgeon screws due to dissimilar metal corrosion before proceeding.

Steering: Sounds like you are on the right track. Make sure the tillers are on the correct sides (slanting in going forward). I assume the bolts/washers to which you refer are at the tiller connection to the crossbar? If so, that's not critical, but replacing them will remove some slop. After replacing cams, a dab of white lithium grease underneath where the plunger contacts them will smooth their operation. Are the upper castings adjustable? If so, rake them forward as far as possible after replacing gudgeon, then check to make sure they lock down/kick up properly. Last, adjust alignment to 1/8" to 1/4 " toe in. Refer to FAQs on this site if needed. You'll be amazed how well they work when properly maintained!

Rudders: As flatlander says, black with fibers showing are likely Gen1 EPOs (worth $200 by them selves!). If fibers are minimal, I'd try just sanding and the epoxy appliance paint. I've had good results recoating deteriorated ones with epoxy and graphite powder (Black). Not sure that gelcoat will properly adhere.....and it's more brittle. Epoxy does need a topcoat for sun protection, though.


Let us know how it goes!

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 10:54 am 
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Location: New Hampshire
Thx for the replies.
Yes the bolt that connects the crossbar to the tillers and washers are what I was referring to. I saw a kit on line for ~ $15. and may just go that route as it has the springs and everything.
So epo rudders that would be cool. The rudders seem to have a foam core. There is signs of dragging on the tip of one of them so I will epoxy and glass the tip back into shape.

The upper castings are adjustable but someone at one point had the screws way out and they dug into the front of the rudders so I may fill that in with some west system epoxy I have.

Being a machinist, this weekend I decided to make a pair of aluminum rudder pins. I had a precision 3/8" diameter 7075 rod kicking around. I cut the rods a bit shorter than the originals, drilled a 3/32 hole near one end for a cotter pin originally but then I found a 1/16" diameter r-clip for the bottom. I put the top hole just above the top of the casting so the pin won't move up/down. Then I wound some electrical tape around the top of the pin above the cotter pin. Voila! easy removable rudder pins! Now I can take my rudders off when trailering in a few seconds. And now I can open my drain plugs with the rudder pin in, which I couldn't do before. The 3/8" rod fits perfectly in the castings and in the gudgeons.

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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 3:49 am 
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Cover your epos in epoxy then rattle can black top coat.

Steve

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 10:13 am 
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Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 10:33 am
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Location: Clinton, Mississippi
That screw in the front of the lower casting is pretty much useless.... lots of folks (including me) just remove it. Adjust rudder rake using the bolt on top of the upper casting (attached to plate inside).

I make my own rudder pins as well, and I cut the ones for the H14 shorter like you did to facilitate plug removal. FYI....the hole typically found in the bottom on the rudder pin is for a spring clip or whatever to hold the whole mess together in case you go full turtle during a capsize. Granted, the chances are remote, but if the crossbar flips away from the rudders (as it often does) and you bob around too long with the rudders swaying back/forth, the rudder pins could work out and the whole assembly end up on the bottom of the lake!

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 11:06 am 
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Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:25 am
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Location: Jersey Shore
The rake adjusting screw in the lower casting is certainly a poor design. But if you take it out and your rudders are raked back such that the forward edge of the rudder is not right up against the casting, then you will have slop. That's the intent of that screw - to eliminate slop between the forward edge of the rudder and the lower casting.

The problem is that if there's slop between the rudder and lower casting, that can allow the upper casting to move back when manually releasing the rudders so that the cam plate doesn't actually make enough contact with the cam and your rudders may kick up without rotating the cam. Then you end up with a rudder cam stuck in the down position.

The best approach is to remove the screw from the lower casting and then use epoxy (Marine Tex works very well for this) to create a shim between the rudder and the casting.

sm


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 5:43 pm 
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Location: New Hampshire
Well I am supposed to have my cams and upper gudgeon tomorrow. Figures today was a perfect sailing day!
Once I put it all back together I will try to adjust the rudders to the specs in the tuning guide. I am pretty sure they will be close without the screws as they looked close before and the screws had buried themselves in the front of the rudders.

I put the lower hole in and put a 1/16" spring clip in to keep the rudder pin in just in case. I was pretty sure that was the original intent.

Looking the boat over a bit more I will glass the bottom of the hulls at some point, they are worn flat. The flat is ~ 1" wide at the widest spot. Someone had layed some resin on there before but is falling off.

I WANT TO SAIL! I might suffer from ocd just a bit.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:54 am 
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Location: Jersey Shore
A1cnc wrote:
I WANT TO SAIL!


Consider updating your profile to include your location. Maybe there are other's in your area you can meet up with.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:47 am 
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Location: New Hampshire
Thanks for the idea. I did update my profile.
I am in new Hampshire.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:34 am 
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Location: New Hampshire
I re-epoxied the rudders with 2 coats so far so they are good and watertight now. I will do 1 more coat and some paint but a good sailing day came up and I just HAD to get out.

I tightened the whole steering system up with new bolts and nylon washers on the tiller arms. The steering is pretty good now but I don't think I have the rudders aligned well enough to each other yet. It still takes a pretty good amount of force to hold the tiller where I want it. I tried to adjust the rake with the cam lock plates but I couldn't move the bolts. I will probably have to break them, re-drill and tap or maybe I will just make new ones.

I got going pretty good and the rudders started to hum. I am not sure if it was from them being raked back too far or the shape. I also had some weeds on one of them for a bit, once the weeds came off I didn't notice the humming anymore. But, the wind had died down some by then and I didn't get going as fast so just not sure if it was the weeds.

If I pick up on one hull from the front on the trailer, it will lift about 5-6" before the other moves. Is that too loose? If so what is the best way to tighten it? My bolts going through the casting have nylon nuts on them.

3 hours of sailing, Sailed until sun-set.
Man, watching the sun set while sailing is a great end to any day!

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:21 am 
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Location: Jersey Shore
The rudder hum is caused by turbulent flow coming off the trailing edge of the rudder. After you finish re-surfacing the rudders, take a flat file and put a flat on each side of the trailing edge of the rudder, then square off the end (i.e., file the rudder like you are going to bring the edge to a point, but then square off the end). There is a FAQ topic that explains the process.

The excessive helm is most likely due to rudder rake, not alignment (toe in/out). You can confirm this by sailing with one rudder kicked up. If the helm goes away, then the alignment is the problem. If the helm stays, then the rake is the problem.

5-6" of lift between bows does not sound excessive, but does leave room for improvement if you want to go down that road. The first thing you can do is just make sure your tramp is as tight as possible. This will help tighten the overall platform. Otherwise, you would need to either shim the pylons and/or epoxy the frame. If you're not racing, then it's probably not worth it.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:31 am 
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Yup, as SRM says, you need to get those rake adjustment bolts loose (penetrating oil? PB Blaster? A little heat?) and rake the rudders forward. There shouldn't be much fore/aft movement when they are locked down. When that's done, set the alignment to 1/8 to 1/4 " of toe-in.

Be careful adding too much thickness to the rudder heads while refinishing (should have mentioned that earlier). Most of the EPO heads I've seen are thicker than other rudder types....hard to prevent scratching in that area regardless, and they will bind in the castings if overbuilt.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:23 am 
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Location: New Hampshire
I adjusted the rake adjuster plates so they lockdown raked forward. Took it for a sail and the helm is waay easier to control now. I did still get a little bit of humming so I will take a file to the rudders.

Flew my jib for the 1st time last night. The wind had dropped way off and wasn't gusty so I figured it was a good time to practice it. I was happy with how it went with practically zero wind. It wasn't too hard to control both sails alone so next time the wind picks up look out!

I sailed for 3 hours till after sun-set. Stayed out a tad too long though. the wind completely died on my way back to the ramp and I had to paddle back. Dam they paddle easy!
The sun-set was worth the paddling though.

Thanks for all the help so far

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