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 Post subject: Engine Mount
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:28 am 
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Posts: 11
I am looking for an engine mount and recommended horsepower outboard. My preference for brand is a Yamaha...have a lot of good experience with Yamahas but I would also consider Honda but no other brand. I am trying to decide between Yamaha's 2.5 hp and their 6 hp. Their 4 and 6 hp weigh the same so I might as well get the six hp over the four hp. What pitch propeller, assuming that choice exists?

The 2.5 weighs 37 pounds and the 4/6 hp both weigh 59 pounds. Does a 22 pound difference make any difference in the rating of the mount?

Of those engines, do I want the short shaft or the long shaft? 15 inch and 20 shafts are available for both engines.

Which outboard mount would you recommend for whichever outboard is recommended?

Thanks,
David


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Mount
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:04 am
Posts: 85
Where will you be there at using the engine? Most cases I would think 2.5 hp is plenty. I use an electric trolling motor (55 lb thrust) which is a fraction of one hp. Also you do want to stay light.


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Mount
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:47 am 
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I will be using the boat on lakes. The water in general is pretty calm except for an occasional boat wake. I will not be going out in really heavy winds. So a 2.5 hp looks to be more than adequate. Thanks Jeff.


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Mount
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:33 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:02 pm
Posts: 737
Location: Rockford, IL
I've got the Torqeedo 1003, supposed to be about 3 HP equivalent. More than enough power, I've only opened it up once or twice. 1/2 to 3/4 throttle is plenty.

6 HP is way overkill and 59 pounds plus a bit for fuel is heavy.

Cheeta makes a motor bracket, or build one yourself from plans on this forum. Look for the thread with KeithB's design. I had the Cheeta, then built Keith's.

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Yet another Bob!
"Firefly" - 2012 Hobie Getaway with wings and spinnaker
"Sparky" - 1978 Sunfish (OK, it's not a Hobie, but it's a fun little craft)
Too many canoes and kayaks


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Mount
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:09 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:07 am
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Thanks, do you need to be able to weld aluminum to create the alternative (better) engine mount?

Are the torquedo batteries kept down in the hull? How are the secured without drilling through the hull? Do you know the total weight and hours it can run including weight of batteries, of the torquedo system? Total cost?

Thanks

I decided to run the numbers...

For an electric trolling motor, 30 pounds of thrust is generated by 0.36 horsepower. That is the equivalent of 30 amps at 12 volts. 30 amps times 12 volts equals 360 watts. One horsepower is equal to 746 watts. So you get around 83.3 pounds of thrust from one horsepower. A 4D battery can produce around 200 amp-hours. 12v x 200a = 1000 w If a load of one horsepower (746W)/12 volts is put on that battery, that is 62 amps. 200 Ah/62Ah is 3.2 hours= 3hrs, 12 min. That's not bad if you have a battery with enough juice. A 4D lithium-ion battery weighs 68 pounds. The torquedo weighs 42 pounds. So the entire system weighs 42+68=110 pounds? This is compared to a Yamaha 2.5 which weighs 37 pounds. I have no idea how long that engine will run at 1 horsepower.


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Mount
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:49 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:02 pm
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Location: Rockford, IL
No, Keith's mount is bolt together. The parts are from a company called 8020, here's a link to the thread. Several of us have made the mount.

Keith’s motor mount
https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=57851

Electric motors aren't the same as gas. The 1003 that I have (now replaced by the 1103) is 1000 Watts, so theoretically, it's only 1-1/3 HP. Torqeedo claims it is equivalent to 3 HP and I believe it. Electric motors develop max torque at stall speed, so they have a lot of grunt.

Torqeedo makes a bunch of different models. The 1103 has the battery on the motor, and it's 915 watt-hours. Go to their website for the details, I think it weighs about 35 lbs including the battery. Here's a link. https://www.torqeedo.com/us/en-us/produ ... 51-00.html

The downsides to the Torqeedo are initial cost (hoo baby. they aren't cheap!) and cost of replacing the battery after 7-10 years (ditto, they aren't cheap either!). Here are links to a couple of discussions about the motors and batteries.

Battery lifespan
https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=68103

Torqeedo information
https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=68121

_________________
Yet another Bob!
"Firefly" - 2012 Hobie Getaway with wings and spinnaker
"Sparky" - 1978 Sunfish (OK, it's not a Hobie, but it's a fun little craft)
Too many canoes and kayaks


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Mount
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:09 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:02 pm
Posts: 737
Location: Rockford, IL
David Morgan wrote:
Thanks, do you need to be able to weld aluminum to create the alternative (better) engine mount?


No, but look further down that thread. There is a beautiful stainless steel mount someone welded up!

_________________
Yet another Bob!
"Firefly" - 2012 Hobie Getaway with wings and spinnaker
"Sparky" - 1978 Sunfish (OK, it's not a Hobie, but it's a fun little craft)
Too many canoes and kayaks


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Mount
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:39 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:30 pm
Posts: 984
Location: Benicia, CA
David Morgan wrote:
I am looking for an engine mount and recommended horsepower outboard. My preference for brand is a Yamaha...have a lot of good experience with Yamahas but I would also consider Honda but no other brand. I am trying to decide between Yamaha's 2.5 hp and their 6 hp. Their 4 and 6 hp weigh the same so I might as well get the six hp over the four hp. What pitch propeller, assuming that choice exists?

The 2.5 weighs 37 pounds and the 4/6 hp both weigh 59 pounds. Does a 22 pound difference make any difference in the rating of the mount?

Of those engines, do I want the short shaft or the long shaft? 15 inch and 20 shafts are available for both engines.

Which outboard mount would you recommend for whichever outboard is recommended?

Thanks,
David


Definitely short shaft. The motor mount you make/buy may also have to be "heightened" to keep it from swimming if you sit aft on the boat.

2.5 is plenty to go 5 kts. 6 hp is overkill unless you are pushing a bunch of people like a party boat. You aren't going to pull a waterskier no matter how big an engine you put there.

I'm not a fan of electric outboards. The range is not impressive and recharge time is hours; cost is stupid high for what you get. A gas engine typically gives you an hour at full throttle with a full tank...but you can refill in a minute or less if you carry another pint of gas with you. I personally go for lightest I can get since I want to sail fast--heavy weight slows you down. I'd get a 2 stroke if CA allowed it.

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R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Mount
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:54 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:02 pm
Posts: 737
Location: Rockford, IL
I agree with Thom, the electric is stupid expensive and inconveniently slow to recharge. Yet I have one. For a couple of reasons. Mostly I sail on lakes no larger than 7 miles, so I can easily motor in from any point. I grew up with 2 stoke outboard motors (every hear of Martin? As bad as the Seagull motor!) and like the instant on and reliability of the electric. And finally, I like electric things in general (maybe 30+ years in the generating industry caused that...) and I can't figure out how to make a tiny enough nuclear reactor for a kicker motor.

And, it's a process. There are a couple of promising research paths for breakthrough batteries. If they pan out, you could run your car from a D cell!

_________________
Yet another Bob!
"Firefly" - 2012 Hobie Getaway with wings and spinnaker
"Sparky" - 1978 Sunfish (OK, it's not a Hobie, but it's a fun little craft)
Too many canoes and kayaks


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Mount
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:05 pm 
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Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:30 pm
Posts: 984
Location: Benicia, CA
I do have an electric bicycle, since it isn't transportation, it just helps my old limited body continue to do stuff I like. If an electric motor assisted a mirage drive or a yuloh or oars, that'd be"OK" to put on my boat. If someone makes a walnut sized nuclear plant...cool, I'd buy one (Tom Swift Jr?). But gasoline packs a lot of power in an easily deliverable and light weight. Nothing better has come along yet. Considering I buy 2 gallons a year for my boat, I think the tree huggers will forgive me. Cost wise, I paid 1K for the motor and about 10 bucks a year for operation. Buy an electric and you pay 2K (if you are lucky) and pay next to nothing for operation every year until the battery wears out, then you pay nearly 1K for a new battery (let's say every 10 years). So amortized over the 10 years, that's 100 a year compared to 10 bucks a year for gas. It just doesn't make any sense to get an electric outboard.

_________________
R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Mount
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:21 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:07 am
Posts: 11
Thanks guys,
Given what you have said, I am going with the Yamaha 2.5 HP short shaft and fabricate my own bolt together mount. I know nothing about welding. :) Thanks for all the great tips.


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Mount
PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:07 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:04 am
Posts: 85
Oh, and by the way…
If you do buy one or 2 gallons of gas a year make sure to get non-ethanol gas. If you don’t have a good source one is Home Depot, where you can buy a canned gallon for about 20+ dollars. It’s the most expensive cheapest gas you’ll ever buy (No carburetor problems).


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Mount
PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:42 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:07 am
Posts: 11
Thanks Jeff, I always use non-ethanol gas for my small engines (blower, lawn mower, chain saw, etc). Gas with ethanol fouls the jets on carburetors.


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