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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:02 am 
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I'm looking for your comments before I grind off my Mast Hook/Fork.

I've sailed the Getaway a lot and haven't figured out the necessity for the hook/fork. Couldn't a guy just cleat off the halyard and be good to go?

My typical use of my boat: Sometimes I camp overnight on the boat or get off the boat and snorkel for awhile. Times like these I take the sail down.

Pros and Cons on removing mast hook/fork:
Pros:
1. Lower your sail instantly without having to do any pull-and-then-check-to-see-if-it's-unhooked maneuvers.
2. Can lower the sail while standing directly below the mast head (which also helps make it a one-man operation).
3. The main halyard will not fray as it gets rubbed against the hook/fork while raising the sail.

Cons:
1. You will have to keep pressure on the main halyard while you clear it from the side stay and then cleat it off (since there is no hook/fork to relieve you of the pressure).

Any thoughts?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:13 am 
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The hook is critical to the setup. Without it the sail head will pull out of the track. The wire helps to hold it in. The halyard stretches, so the sail would slip down the mast. You add compression load to the mast by tensioning and tying off a halyard at the mast base.

Should be easier on a Getaway while on the water due to the froward tramp, but leaning forward a bit to unhook the halyard is not difficult. Pull hard down then simply reach forward then release... doesn't take much. You can also force the mast to rotate towards you to be directly under the hook.

Using the halyard hook is easy with a bit of technique:

Sail Hoist FAQ: http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=371

mmiller wrote:
Raising the mainsail of a Hobie can be more difficult than need be.

Several factors can cause the mainsail to be difficult to hoist:


Dirty luff ropes and luff tracks. These can be cleaned with soapy water and a scrub brush. If you want to use a lubricant, keep away from oils and waxes that can attract dirt. Use a dry silicone spray. Most all Hobie sails now have a Teflon threaded bolt (luff) rope to ease the hoisting effort.

Battens and sail shape. The battens stiffen the airfoil shape of your sail. Over tensioning of the battens can cause a couple of problems. Luff protector caps can be forced against the mast and cause drag when hoisting. The battens also force the sail shape into a curve. The luff curve (seen when laying the sail out on the ground, as a large arch) is typical to Hobie Cat main sails. The sails "airfoil" shape is mostly created by the miss-matched mast bend and luff curve of the sail. The luff curve is more than the likely mast bend and when the mast is straight (while hoisting) the difference is dramatic. This luff curve going up the straight mast can cause significant drag and hoisting problems when done incorrectly.

Outhaul. Be sure the outhaul is fully released before hoisting.

Hoist Technique:

Keep the batten tension to a minimum. Hoist the sail slowly, while feeding into the mast opening. When the sail gets about 3/4's of the way up, begin aggressively feeding at the bottom opening and reduce the amount of halyard effort. If the halyard is pulled tight when the sail is not being fed into and up the track, you will have problems. The sail luff will pull taunt and the curve shape will bind in the (straight) mast track. Lower the sail slightly and begin feeding again.

The best way to feed the sail is to stand in front of the mast and reach around either side to "sandwich" the sail between two hands (above the feeder opening) and push the sail up the track. Pull with the halyard, only the slack created, then feed again. If the sail binds, lower slightly and begin feeding again. This technique can be done by one person, but is certainly easier with two working together. It is VERY important that the person on the halyard only pulls the slack up the mast and does not get ahead of the feeder.

Locking the Hobie 14/16/Getaway halyard:

Once the sail is fully hoisted (be sure that the sail is fully inserted into the feeder). Pull the halyard forward of the mast by 3-4 feet. Hold the halyard on the centerline of the mast. Pull hard and hold the tension while bringing the halyard into the mast. Release the halyard tension and see that the sail remains fully hoisted. This seats a small bead, in the halyard, under a two finger prong "hook" and the top of the mast. If the sail slips down when downhaul tension is added, repeat the final hoist technique again. Be sure the bead is clear to pass the hook before pulling tension on the halyard.

Image

To release... fully release the downhaul and outhaul. Partially feed the sail up the luff track. Hoist with the halyard to the top till it stops, hold... pull the halyard line forward 3-4 feet away from the mast, ease the halyard to lower the sail.

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Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:23 pm
Posts: 120
100% agree with Matt. The halyard hook is an integral part of the design. There is no reason to change the halyard while raising the sail. The trick is to use McLube on the bolt rope and the sail track. The sail goes up with ease and it drops to the tramp as soon as the lock is released. It is important not to forget to uncleat the downhaul before trying to drop the sail.

The comptip on the Getaway flexes. It is not possible to have correct luff tension without the halyard lock. The mast will bend and refuse to rotate properly it the halyard is cleated at the mast base.

Cheers
Randy

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:12 pm 
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Location: Benicia, CA
I used to use sailkote (McLube). I now use the spray on "tire wet" stuff which is mostly silicone. Gets the same results for much less money. Neighbor went even cheaper and uses parafin rubbed on the luff tape. The key is to keep everything as clean as possible. If you are having consistent problems at a specific location, check the batten tension there.

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R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II


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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 7:13 am 
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I have sailed with no halyard lock for a couple of months when my halyard broke at the joint of the steel wire and rope (I had to wait to get the replacement as I am in Peru). I guess you need to keep the halyard really tight to avoid it getting low and possibly the sail coming of the track. I will certainly not do it if I had a working halyard.
Now my halyard is again weak at the joint. What is the best way to keep it from breaking there? Is there a good way to replace the joint? I don't like to chuck in $60 every couple of years to replace the whole halyard while the only thing wrong with it is the joint.

Guillermo


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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 8:01 am 
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Location: Benicia, CA
Part of the reason the line fails at that spot is the dissimilar metals that are used and galvanic corrosion; so you should try to rinse the line off at that spot after each sail and keep it out of the sun. If you want to replace it with something longer lasting you should talk to your rigger if you have one. A simple high tech line with the cover buried leaving a pig tail of the right length would work-especially if you threaded a thimble over the top. You have to be careful, though, it isn't enough to make sure it catches to keep the sail up...you have to also ensure it can be unhooked or you could find yourself doing some hard and fast beaching.

Of course if you decide to get high tech line, there won't be any worries about the line stretching so you could get rid of the hook and even install a rope clutch like big boats. Yah, you will just about double the compressive force on the mast so the comp tip might flex a little more--with no spreaders to keep the mast in column you might end up with a noodle up there. If you are worried about the luff tape squeezing through the mast track up there...simple fix, get rid of the luff tape on the top and install a couple long sail slugs (those suckers won't pull out).

Lotsa stuff you can do to the boat if you wanted to, but mostly what it has works OK and hobie parts are inexpensive compared to higher tech stuff. Can't find a better performing cheaper boat to fiddle with.

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R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II


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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 9:41 am 
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Yea, maybe is not worth the trouble. Maybe just replacing the halyard every 3-4 years is the easiest solution.


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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 10:11 am 
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Location: Benicia, CA
Undoubtedly that would work easiest. You might want to consider keeping a spare on hand so you will have one that works even if the current one gets broken.

If there is a rig shop near you, you might take the broken one and the new one to him and see if he can repair the old one. You can do it yourself easily enough if you can make splices or learn splicing via internet.

You need some high tech line (same diameter as the wire); you need about 3 feet. Costs about a dollar a foot. Step 1 is to dig the core out of the existing halyard about 2 feet from the end. Cut off the cover leaving about 6". Now bury the exposed cover inside the middle of the core that you extracted. You should sew (with your handi stitcher) the cover in there so it doesn't come out.

Step 2 is to splice the high tech line to the core of the halyard and bury both free ends inside--would not hurt to handi stitch those ends, as well. If these were newer lines, you "could" "suck" the splice inside the halyard cover, but if you are using old line, that is going to be something VERY difficult. I did try this first, but ...

Step 3 is to attach the shackle to the end. There are lots of ways to do this; I chose to create a brummel splice end loop and luggage tag the shackle. You have to do this so you can measure back from this to know where to place the stopper knot for the hook. You can forego a shackle if you want to tie a bowline each time you sail, but you may not get the head of the sail in the same place each time...not a big deal.

Step 4 is to tie the stopper knot at the correct spot in the high tech line.

Step 5 is to use some stainless lockwire to cover the knot-its only purpose is to prevent the stopper knot from pulling through the notch and getting jammed. You could also use a metal thimble to crimp around the knot (but you would have had to thread that onto the line before step 3). There are probably other solutions, like epoxy.

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R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II


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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 1:18 pm 
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Cool, thanks for the detail. I have no experience doing those splices but I might try it at some point.

regards


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