Return to Hobie.com
Hobie Forums
It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 5:15 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:39 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:46 am
Posts: 99
Has anyone tried to retrofit a mirage drive to a Hobie Getaway or any of the other Hobie Cats? This would be a great option for getting to and from launching areas to open water where the wind is stronger. It would be excellent if Hobie had a kit for this. Does anyone have a pictures of their set up?

_________________
ClamCounter
Hobie Getaway 2012 “Miss Marie”
300 Mile Everglades Challenge '12, '13, '14, '15, '16, '17, ‘18, ‘19, ‘20


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:53 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:43 am
Posts: 266
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Given the seating position needed for the mirage drive to work and that its affixed to a hull to be in close contact with the water i'm not seeing how this concept would work. Don't get me wrong "where there is a will, there is a way" but that's what learning to depowering your rig is for, finding an alternative launch point or just not sailing in strong conditions.

_________________
2007 Hobie 16 - 'Slingshot'
1996 Hobie 18 - 'Onrails'
Hobie Bravo - 'Hobie Bites'


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:29 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 15027
Location: Oceanside, California
Certainly something we have thought a lot about. The mount vs seat is the tough part.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:27 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:46 am
Posts: 99
Has anyone found a way to retrofit a mirage drive on their Hobie Cat yet?

_________________
ClamCounter
Hobie Getaway 2012 “Miss Marie”
300 Mile Everglades Challenge '12, '13, '14, '15, '16, '17, ‘18, ‘19, ‘20


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:21 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:46 am
Posts: 99
Anyone?

_________________
ClamCounter
Hobie Getaway 2012 “Miss Marie”
300 Mile Everglades Challenge '12, '13, '14, '15, '16, '17, ‘18, ‘19, ‘20


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:27 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:40 am
Posts: 927
Location: Blacklick, Ohio
I think this one is still eluding Hobie engineers.

Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk

_________________
2015 Hobie Tandem Island Hibiscus
"Third Normal Form"

  • Trampolines
  • Hobie cover
  • Davis Spar Fly
  • Kayakbob's Sprayskirts
  • Spine Board Hakas


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:07 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 3058
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
A few yrs ago I helped a guy on this forum concept out a way to mount a mirage drive on either an H16 or a getaway (or any hobie cat for that matter). I have no idea where that post is now, I'm pretty sure it never got built.
Basically one of the concepts was a swing down mount similar to a cheeta motor mount, the only difference being a mirage drive mounted on the end instead of a motor mount. You would sit backwards and pedal the mirage drive in thru harbors and such (likely only slightly better than paddling), all steering is via the standard rudders. Rigidity would be provided via spectra string lines ran to the rudder gudgeons. The only down side being a mirage drive is more expensive than a gas motor. Most cat owners choose their launch points so they shouldn't need a motor, just sayin, that's why sailing clubs are so popular, for a few hundred bucks a year, you can store the boat (mast up), and launch and retrieve all you like without needing motors, (most small small sailboats have the same dilemma, ( probably why they are called beach cats).
I also concepted out for him dual swing down mirage drives attach to the rear pylons with spectra strings connecting the units together via pulleys. In this case you would sit sideways on the tramp and pedal the pedal and it would operate both the mirage drives, just so happens the pedal arms ended up looking identical to the new eclipse pedal arms (bent 90 degrees, nice cooincidence).
The third option was a swing down stand up stair stepper setup just like the new eclipse. The plate where the mirage drive mounts would be suspended via 4 spectra strings hooked to the rear pylons, and eyelets added to the rear rudder gudgeon plates, forming a big X with the platform hovering just above the water. Basically you just stand up and pedal like a stair stepper using the main rudder for steering. When not using you just bungy the unit to one side or the other.
Would have required the construction of new 90 degree pedal arms, however now the eclipse drive is out there, this whole setup would be a no brainer to add to any hobie cat (even the wave).
On the design I showed the guy, I used a 3/8 thick alum plate (I think it was 12" wide x 15" or so long) with the center waterjet cut out for the opening, the end tangs of the drive sat on top of the plate. 1" x 2" alum riser blocks (height to be determined) would fit around the 1/2" stainless rods sticking out each end of the mirage unit. I just had simple alum caps screwed down to hold the mirage unit down with screws.
That design was really cool because it didn't require anything attached to the boat itself (besides the eyelets mounted to the rudder gudgeons). The alum plate weighs 5 lbs but could be replaced with a composite plate (2-3 lbs). The 1000 lb test spectra (TI rudder line) costs like $.30 cents a foot and weighs nothing. The wood planks and hinges ( the stair stepper part) shouldn't weigh more than a couple pounds.
This was all around 4 yrs ago, what we didn't know at the time was if the mirage drive could hold up to these new stresses, I guess the new eclipse drive answers that question (identical design).
Hope this gives you some ideas
FE


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:32 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:46 am
Posts: 99
Thanks for presenting a few ideas!! To me it seems the idea of being able to lean with back against the wing seats while pedaling via a system of pulleys to a swing down set of mirage drives sounds the most optimal.

My theories are that there would need to be some sort of back support to get decent leverage on the pedals.

If pedaling with back against the wing seats, the feet would be somewhere near the main tramp laces.... So near the laces would be some sort of pedals with pulleys and lines to the mirage drives... What type of material/platform would be used to house the pedals/pulleys and rest where the laces are?


The last big question is.... Will one mirage drive be enough to propel a 400lb getaway with 3 sailers on board? Or would two mirage drives be necessary?

_________________
ClamCounter
Hobie Getaway 2012 “Miss Marie”
300 Mile Everglades Challenge '12, '13, '14, '15, '16, '17, ‘18, ‘19, ‘20


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:22 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:46 am
Posts: 99
Someone out there has to have tried this by now on a Hobie cat.

This picture below shows a mirage drive fitted on a monohull.

Looking forward to seeing what the brilliant minds at Hobie end up designing to fit these on the cats.





Image

_________________
ClamCounter
Hobie Getaway 2012 “Miss Marie”
300 Mile Everglades Challenge '12, '13, '14, '15, '16, '17, ‘18, ‘19, ‘20


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:00 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:30 pm
Posts: 984
Location: Benicia, CA
ClamCounter wrote:

The last big question is.... Will one mirage drive be enough to propel a 400lb getaway with 3 sailers on board? Or would two mirage drives be necessary?


http://www.currentdrives.com/

I think you'll need 2 at a minimum. Given the additional weight and complexity, you might consider two paddlers and a small helper motor for the EC where you have to go directly upwind to get out.

I think 2 because of the video of one mirage drive versus two paddlers in the pool; plus my experience with my getaway trying to go against an 11 kt headwind with 2 of us paddling. We could do it, but barely (about 50 yards a minute).

_________________
R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:57 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:46 am
Posts: 99
Cool electric drive on that link. It's interesting to watch the evolution of these things for small boats, microcruisers etc.

We currently have a torqueedo Travel 1003 and it's low maintence along with it's reliability has been game changing for us. It's nice to know this thing will always start at the push of a button, no fowling, flooding, etc. Only thing is, if brought along during the EC it was push is out of the "Hobie Cat" class and into another class specifically for electric/solar powered vessels.

If we were to add Mirage drives we would still be considered a man powered vessel and could remain in our Hobie cat class.

The option I've seen so far would be to add two motor mount brackets on the back crossbar similair to the design (I think Keith B made. The mirage drives could attach there. This would put the peddler(s) near the tiller cross bar for steering. Also, the aft mounted drives would shield the peddler(s) from waves/splash etc for those horrendous upwind up current dig out moments.

Two drives would be oustanding. Any number of mirage drives would be more efficient than two paddlers.

_________________
ClamCounter
Hobie Getaway 2012 “Miss Marie”
300 Mile Everglades Challenge '12, '13, '14, '15, '16, '17, ‘18, ‘19, ‘20


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:38 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:30 pm
Posts: 984
Location: Benicia, CA
Gondola oars have always intrigued me. You rarely see them propelling anything except gondolas, but I've often wondered whether they are more or less efficient than paddles.

_________________
R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:46 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:30 pm
Posts: 984
Location: Benicia, CA
Another idle thought...why not just carry a tandem kayak (you have lots of room on a getaway) equipped with mirage drive or two single kayaks hung from the getaway seats-when needed, lower and pedal away!

_________________
R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 4:40 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:30 pm
Posts: 984
Location: Benicia, CA
Thanks, I am still fascinated by them. Those Yuloh's seem to have huge surface area...kinda makes you travel through the water with a shark like action. I suspect the "oar lock" has to be substantial, though. Would like to see a Yuloh vs mirage drive video...:)

_________________
R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:24 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:02 pm
Posts: 737
Location: Rockford, IL
I was at my local kayak shop the other day. They don't sell Hobie kayaks, but they have several kayaks that have a pedal driven propeller system. I think that would be easier to adapt to a sailboat as a kicker than the Mirage drive.

_________________
Yet another Bob!
"Firefly" - 2012 Hobie Getaway with wings and spinnaker
"Sparky" - 1978 Sunfish (OK, it's not a Hobie, but it's a fun little craft)
Too many canoes and kayaks


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
© Hobie Cat Company. All rights reserved.
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group