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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:19 pm 
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Not everything worked perfectly. Furling didn't work hardly at all. Not sure why, yet, but I'll figure it out, I think; but if not I can always decide to change to snuffing it in a snuffer. Sail itself did perform well on a close reach in 6-8 kts breeze...worked well upwind in 4 kt breeze. So far, so good...I expect to shake down into a good addition to the sail suite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIW0orcbJ4Q&spfreload=5

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Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:45 am 
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Pretty Cool! Awesome sail color. :).

I see there is a white line from your main clew extention going up. Where does it secure to on the opposite end? Is this a sort of backstay beyond the sheeted main?

Where you able to test the boat's speed without it for comparison?

I feel like I'm usually able to get atleast 2 extra knots from our spinnaker, some times a lot more. That little extra equates to a lot on our long runs that can be 60+ miles.

Adding another sail to our arsenal could be benefitial.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:05 am 
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Location: Benicia, CA
That line secures around the batten above it. All it does is help pull the mainsail leach down with the mainsheet--our mains are built with huge roach but the foot doesn't actually extend as far as the sail's bottom batten, since the extension doesn't have fabric above it, the line kinda compensates for that lack. I do only get a little extra camber using the extension, but I do think it helps.

I'm sure your spinnaker does help a lot in light breeze going to weather. You can't point with it as well as with the jib, but the extra speed probably makes up for the lack of pointing in any wind you would consider using it to weather. Consider that your spinnaker is also cut pretty flat and that adds to the upwind capability. Unfortunately, that also means your spin isn't as useful deep downwind as it could be. If you do decide to get a furling code zero/screacher, you will probably also want to have the sailmaker make a fuller spin later on.

Yah, new sails to play with are fun. Since I can build them myself, it is easy for me to optimize a sail suite for the conditions I usually see...like this windseeker for winter sailing. I probably sail 4 times a year when the sail will be truly useful, but a weekend of sewing and $100 or so in fabric, I've got the need fulfilled.

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R/Thom
SeaRail 19
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Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:19 pm 
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Location: Brisbane, Australia
What was the concept idea behind not having the pole and just attaching the furler to extended bridals?

I recently setup a large asymmetric spinnaker on my H18 to a furler (originally launched from tramp bag) which works perfectly. Happy to share the idea & working concepts if your interested. Looks like your furler has a line drum and not a continuous one?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:36 pm 
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I am not a fan of sprit s on a catamaran. The hobie kit in particular seems needlessly complicated. I use a symmetric spin for downwind which is perfect in typical summer winds. I snuff it on the front tramp.. This new sail is for light winter winds.

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R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:49 am 
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Location: Brisbane, Australia
I've often pondered on installing a swinging bowsprit on a beachcat but believe this would greatly imbalance its stability. I still like the idea thou for flying a symmetrical spinnaker dead downwind.
So my first concern with not using a fixed spinnaker pole would be your setups ability to fold on itself i.e. your furler with enough pressure would begin twisting on itself and its attachment to the bridal.

Are you using a typical jib furler or continuous line furler?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:26 am 
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It's a single line furler and it didn't work well on the first try--it did twist instead of furling. I've changed the bridle attachment bar and secured it better, but until I get out again, I won't know if the change was successful. I've had double line furlers on other boats and they are better so long as you can get the end splice to stay the same diameter (something I had trouble with). I originally wasn't going to use a furler at all but since the gap between the jib forestay and the windseeker is small, going to weather would be difficult during tacks, so I thought furling might help. As you saw in the video, off the wind it isn't a problem. If the furler isn't going to work out, I'll replace the furler with another swivel and hand furl (which is what I did yesterday), then lower for storage. If that doesn't work out, I'll make another snuffer...this whole thing is a work in progress--I do enjoy fiddling with my boats.

The symspin works ddw, but I usually am on a broad reach with it. The two clews tack only 15" from the centerline. I constructed the spin so it could reach -- actually built it as two asymspins but joined the bottom panels. Where I sail the summer breeze is around 20kts pretty reliably. So I have power to throw away, since I am no longer young (except at heart) I don't feel the need to get on one hull.

You mentioned a furling asymspin. Which system of furling did you use? Did you go with an antitwist in the luff or did you go with the separate furling platen and furl from the top down? I've done it both ways, the antitwist is easier for single handing, but the separate platen allows use of a fuller spin. Or something different?

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SeaRail 19
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Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:30 am 
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Members of my group have been trialing different furling methods for asymmetrical spinnakers, even to cut them down but have found it difficult to furl them neatly. Yes you can still drop them using the halyard when sailing upwind but ideally you want them to furl up neatly so you don't have to worry about it until you return to the boat ramp. I've had so many messy retrievals of my bag launched spin to my tramp that I was bound to the furling setup. Also too my spinnaker does not have retrieval points to work with a snuffer.

The furlers found best for this are continuous line furlers as none of the single line furlers were ever long enough (best left for a jib). We've been using the Ronstan Series 60 found here: http://www.ronstan.com/marine/product.a ... =RS006400R
This setup is great but lacks a 360 spinning tack join so i've DIY'ed one of those. This furler is joined to the tang swivel by an anti-torsion line so when furled it works 'top down'. As soon as I begin to furl the impact on furling is instant. Several of the other members are playing with different lines but not having much success and often the spinnaker doesn't furl easily at all especially in good wind no matter what direction your sailing in and the strain placed on the sail being so tightly furled is evident.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:23 am 
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The 360 spinning tack is an issue. I ended up using a bicycle wheel hub that I welded eyes to on the axle, then bolt a plate for offset to the spinning hub to which the tack attached. Since antitorque line didn't exist when I made mine, I used some refrigerator tubing for the platen and I threaded some smaller diameter line through it and stabilized the tubing to the inserted line about 2/3 up...I tried without the platen once in my backyard...the spinnaker was impossible to unfurl it was so tightly attached to the line (so caution your friends). The system worked well but the spinnaker didn't coil well since the refrigerator tubing was stiff...but needed a full spin for single handed races.

BTW, in case you ever want to convert the spin to a snuffer, it is trivial to add spots for the retrieval line. Just reinforce 2 or 3 spots (Depending on the size of your sail) with some insignia cloth and insert some grommets. Placement of the grommets is important and is determined by the length of your snuffer. The top grommet goes along the centerline the length of your snuffer down from the top. The bottom grommet goes where the snuffer length distance from the clew and tack splitting those angles. That way when you pull the line, it snuffs and all three (head, tack and clew) are all sucked in the same length.

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R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:57 am 
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ClamCounter wrote:
Pretty Cool! Awesome sail color. :).

Where you able to test the boat's speed without it for comparison?

Adding another sail to our arsenal could be beneficial.


I wasn't able to compare for heading to weather; but I did test it off the wind (prior to the video of the sail itself). Without the sail and using jib, I was not able to make any way against the 1 kt current...basically, I was stuck in one spot barely making way toward my goal. After hoisting the windseeker and fixing some rigging issues (like I said, some things didn't work perfectly :) ) the boat was able to make way against the current and had a respectable SOA given only 4-5 kt breeze. Toward the end of the sail (after the video) the current went slack and even helped push us toward the marina (I counted on that in case "(censored)" happened).

Since you have a sprit and a hound, you could easily add a screacher...however, you should know that a screacher/code zero is hard on the boat/rigging. I broke the bow off my old trimaran more than once using a screacher. Part of the reason I went the windseeker route is that fact...since I won't use it in big wind, I won't have to worry about breaking the mast or the bow spreader.

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SeaRail 19
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Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:48 am 
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Loved the 'mucking around in boats' vid.
We Started off with a cut down kite off a skiff using an old caper cat furler and 5mm 'hard' rope alongside (sorry forgot name). That worked OK but under pressure it often had trouble furling and we'd get hourglass issues. Then replaced the dyneema with soft wire and did not use additional 5mm rope. That was not successful. Switched to HARD wire and a continuous ronstan 60 furler. Fabulous result and very easy to control. Sheet control was problematic due to single pulley system. Spoke to members of the group i sail with and they use and additional pulley (sissy block?) which gives quite a lot of mech advantage. Finally a system that my wife can manage (she is 60+). PS: we only use for mucking around in light winds and downwind in up to 12knts max...


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:09 am 
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spin poles do add complications to the boat, however they make jibing easier as gap
between jib and spin is greater. pole is nice for mounting snuffer. I only set up and take apart
my getaway at beginning and end of season. If I trailered it that would be too much extra work.
doug


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:18 pm 
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I tried a couple different ways of using the furler, just didn't work out to my satisfaction, so I converted the windseeker to a snuffing sail. I took the symspin off the boat for winter and will use the windseeker probably until May when I convert back to the symspin. It sure cleaned up the boat since there are fewer lines needed for the windseeker (think of the windseeker as a very large (masthead) light fabric jib). Snuffer was moved to the center under the jib bridle but extends to the front spreader bar. I also got rid of the mainsail extension bar but added a line so I can pull the traveler to weather--that should help in the light winter breezes. It's been a really wet and cold winter here in N. CA so I haven't had much opportunity to sail. The floods have flushed every bit of excrement that floats onto the water so the marina has floating debris all over the place and the strait itself has logs every so often floating bye. Actually saw a manikin floating with the arm sticking up out of the water...was weird.

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SeaRail 19
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Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:45 pm 
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Here's the windseeker on its second sea trial. Worked OK. Very light breeze Was in the 70's today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcuFfGtI0TI


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R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II


Last edited by tpdavis473 on Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:01 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:58 am 
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Location: High Point, NC
Bottom-up furling won't work with headsails featuring a full cut. For those type sails you have to go with a top-down furling arrangement, or use a snuffer.


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