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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:09 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:56 am
Posts: 12
2-4 footers on Lake Erie yesterday, and a washing machine chop outside the harbor. I lower my Torqeedo motor, bring down the sails, and crank up the motor just as a 4-5 foot wake hits the bow. The motor drops down at an angle, now completely submerged with the tiller sticking out like a snorkel, but the darn thing keeps on chugging. The mount holds together but there's obviously something different. The motor takes me 3/4 mile back upriver to the boat ramp. I get the boat out and look at the Cheata mount. The 304 stainless bolts are bent at about a 30 degree angle where the come out of the crossbar. Bent, not fractured. Good, careful choice on the bolts, Peter Carras (Cheata designer)! Amazing that the power of the lake and the motor combined went up against the Cheata, and the Cheata survived with two bent bolts and no damage to the boat or motor.

I have owned Torqeedos since the Travel 801 first came out, and used the 801 on my old Wayfarer and now the 1003 on my Hobie Getaway. Some problems with the 801, but the 1003 has been a great upgrade, with a credit for the trade-in on the 801. Despite my removing the tiller and battery immediately after getting the sail up, the motor tilt lever on the 1003 broke twice. The second time, Torqeedo now has a new affordable design change for the tilt lever and side frame that looks much more likely to last. Nonetheless, I don't trust that little lever in the Lake Erie chop. A 10" length of 2 X 4 lumber now gets bungeed to the motor shaft immediately below the motor, so the shaft rests on the wood instead of being propped up by the tilt lever. So far, this arrangement has worked great, the wood is cheap to replace, and it provides a softer landing for the shaft when it bounces in the Lake Erie chop. I used to completely remove the motor off the motor mount, but I was constantly catching sheets and body parts on the shaft no matter where I tied it down, and I worried about falling on the sharp edges of the propellor.

The Cheata mount has been a good solution for the most part, and is especially easy to use when the water is smooth. The pop rivets don't last long in chop, and I try to remember to replace them, but they're only good for one rough sail and I come off the lake and they're gone. I have contemplated a second set of bolts, but the engineer in me warns of failure due to an overconstrained design. I don't want to put a twist in the rear crossbar, and I'd rather keep replacing cheap pop rivets, and (hopefully never again) a pair of gracefully bendable stainless bolts, than replace the crossbar. I would be reluctant to try a stiffer design on Lake Erie, mainly because there is no place for the power of the lake to get relieved except the clamp to the crossbar.

I'm curious if others have tried different solutions to using the Torqeedo Travel with their Getaway and the Cheata mount in rough seas?

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Don
Strongsville (near Cleveland) OH
Lake Erie sailor, mostly
2010 Getaway "Happy Couple"


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:59 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:02 pm
Posts: 386
Location: Rockford, IL
I had the Cheata mount and Torqeedo 1003 on my Getaway on Lake Michigan for a year. The steep chop bounced the motor a lot when it was tipped up. I tried to use the Cheata tipping feature at first, but the prop hit the waves, so then I did as you apparently do, and left the Cheata down and tipped the motor up. I have a strap I use to hold the motor sideways.
Since then, I replaced the Cheata mount with KeithB's designed mount. It holds the motor a little higher, and doesn't have the hanging down part that splashes water everywhere.
Here's a link to the discussion about KeithB's design: https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic. ... 20#p283401

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Yet another Bob!
"Firefly" - 2012 Hobie Getaway with wings and spinnaker


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:03 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:16 am
Posts: 287
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick, Canada
Erie is one mean lake when the wind blows. If you can sail on Lake Erie and endure the worst conditions, you can sail anywhere.

Thanks for the feedback on the Torqeedo motor. The Cheeta design is flawed for heavy weather conditions, just too much leverage on the fasteners but it works for the most part.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:14 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:02 pm
Posts: 386
Location: Rockford, IL
Rob, Take a look at Wanderoo222's rear crossbar add-on to his motor mount. I think it's a great idea, considering adding it to my boat.
The photo's are about halfway down page 4 of this thread: https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic. ... 0&start=45

Edit: I just looked and Home Depot has the galvanized pipe already painted black. Ordered it.

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Yet another Bob!
"Firefly" - 2012 Hobie Getaway with wings and spinnaker


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:17 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:56 am
Posts: 12
Dorienc,

In engineering school we learned about overconstraints on structures. A rectangle, like the crossbars and hulls that form the basic Getaway structure, has some natural give to in-plane twist ("squishing" the rectangle) or out of plane twist (lifting opposite corners of a rectangle). Notice that the bow spreader on the getaway has some looseness to it, so as not to overconstrain the basic structure in either axis.

Now put another crossbar out past the end of the rectangle. Twisting in either direction will try to break something. The more tightly this new bar is attached, the quicker something will break. I've considered something like Wonderoo's solution, but with springs between the ends of the hulls and the new crossbar, to remove any overconstraints on the hull/crossbar structure. I've concluded that if I got the springs loose enough, they wouldn't be doing much to hold the motor up. The good news is that the strength and flexibility of the rear crossbar, from my experience with the Torqeedo and the Cheeta mount, appear to be sufficient that with Keith's sturdy lower plate in the crossbar groove, extra support should not be necessary.

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Don
Strongsville (near Cleveland) OH
Lake Erie sailor, mostly
2010 Getaway "Happy Couple"


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:35 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:02 pm
Posts: 386
Location: Rockford, IL
dpalac wrote:
In engineering school we learned about overconstraints on structures. A rectangle, like the crossbars and hulls that form the basic Getaway structure, has some natural give to in-plane twist ("squishing" the rectangle) or out of plane twist (lifting opposite corners of a rectangle). Notice that the bow spreader on the getaway has some looseness to it, so as not to overconstrain the basic structure in either axis.

Now put another crossbar out past the end of the rectangle.


Yeah, I took this into consideration. The main crossbars form the main rectangular structure. But then, add the front crossbeam on the Getaway. It's fitted into the hulls without any snubber, and much further forward where the twisting movement will be amplified. The rear beam that I added is very near the rear crossbar, and I don't think there's much independent movement there. The beam mounting is the weakest point, so if anything fails, I expect it's going to be the mounting screws for that beam.

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Yet another Bob!
"Firefly" - 2012 Hobie Getaway with wings and spinnaker


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