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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:38 pm 
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We’re less than 30 days away from the March 3rd, 2018 Everglades Challenge. The event is a 300 mile small vessel challenge with 5 seperate classes of competitors including multi hulls, mono hulls, kayaks, and SUPs. The event starts at Fort Desoto, Florida and has check points near Boca Grande, Chocoloskee (10,000 Islands), Flamingo and ends in Key Largo, Florida.

This year will be he 6th year our Hobie Getaway with wing seats and spinnaker will compete in the event. The course will require navigating through challenging inlets with shoals, high surf, strong tides and in some areas of the Everglades miles of paddling through mangrove lined channels. Our “Hobie Cat” class competes without the aid of an engine. However, paddling, peddling and/or (swimming?) are legal.

We’ve toy’d with the idea of adding a mirage drive to the hobie Getaway but we havenr’t found an optimal setup yet. Mostly, due to the travel car or having to face aft while peddling.

A few months ago we discovered the H2 Pro Ped. A peddle drive system that mounts to a transom and has a flexible drive hose that leads to seat set on a frame with peddles. It appears, this setup will work great. We’re looking forward to the options of manueverability this will provide around marinas, docking and making way through windless passes.

We’ll report back with some additional photos once we get closer to the event. Stay tuned!

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:00 pm 
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Go the Fred!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:36 pm 
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good luck. Still think you probably would do as well to get out of the boat with swim fins; no gators in the water, right? :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:56 am 
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Tpdavis:
I was just curious so I read up on it, interesting subject, the everglades are facinating, We spend most of our time in the area, but try to avoid the glades, (too many bugs, and no drinkable water).
So I'm gathering, if your swimming pulling your boat, if the water tastes salty, it's highly unlikely to be eaten by a gator, (you are correct), lol you're bein eaten by a croc, they look similar.
Apparently American Alligators don't have working salt glands so they can't drink salt water, (evolution), but American crocs do. Never knew any of that before looking it up.
Just kidding around....
I like their peddle setup, saw a similar setup a couple yrs ago in the EC on I think an H20, with two side by side peddle stations, I have no idea how they did. I admired their propeller design though, I'm into that kind of stuff, (efficient propeller and propulsion design)
FE


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:22 am 
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I remember the boat with the pedal drives in 2014. They left Chokoloskee before we did, but got lost. They saw us and asked if we knew the way and could they follow us out. The pedal drives seemed to work well enough, but it was hardly a great test. We were rowing and sailing, sailing mostly, on an outgoing tide that evening.

I'll be at the start this year doing boat inspections for the newbies. Hope to be back in 2019 in my TI. Breaking in my potential crew on another event this year.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:33 pm 
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fusioneng wrote:
So I'm gathering, if your swimming pulling your boat, if the water tastes salty, it's highly unlikely to be eaten by a gator, (you are correct), lol you're bein eaten by a croc, they look similar.
Apparently American Alligators don't have working salt glands so they can't drink salt water, (evolution), but American crocs do. Never knew any of that before looking it up.


In the Mosquito Lagoon on the East Coast, which claims to have a higher salinity than seawater, big American Alligators abound.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:15 pm 
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Fred the pink yard flamingo bowspirit will be along for the ride again this year!

The Everglades National Park marina has both types of “Gators” some on the Florida Bay salwater side and some on the freah water side a short 40 foot portage away. I’m always way too sleep deprived at that point in the race to pay much more attention to them than that.

Which could be good or bad since we do end up jumping off the boat in waist high muck if we find ourselves outside of the channel.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:26 am 
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That concept of using a flexible drive cable to operate the prop is fascinating. This makes it possible to place the pedal position anywhere on the boat, (pretty much any boat design).
A while back I helped a guy figure out how to mount a mirage drive on a cat with a swing down mount, (similar to a cheetah mount, (basically an aluminum plate with a hole in it)), however being able to peddle the thing would have been a pain, ( having to sit backwards).
On another project, I made a simple snap on linkage system so I could operate my mirage drive with an electric drill, (I was having difficulty with my knee at the time). Basically converting the back and forth motion to rotary motion.
By combining the two concepts, you could concievably have a portable rotary pedal station, that could be laid on the tramp on a cat, anyplace handy.
I have no idea if a rotary propeller or mirage fins would be more efficient. Or if it would be worth the effort to build a mirage drive system, especially given that the propeller system appears to be all figured out and ready to go, (just bolt it on). Watching videos of the system in action on a kayak it looks impressive, (probably similar performance to the propel system, I would assume). I haven't seen any side by side comparison between the propel system and the mirage system, ( as far as energy consumption and endurance goes).
Our TI is bigger than a getaway, and with a single mirage drive I know I can peddle mine at a fairly decent speed for up to ten hrs, (with a few rest breaks, (obviously at a walking pace, 40-45 cpm)). Sure you can peddle like a madman and get up to 6-7mph, but get pooped out very quickly, that's not the point. A TI with two peddlers is extremely energy efficient, ( in my opinion).
We tend to go great distances with our TI, and seldom take it out in anything over 5mph winds, I'm crippled and can't take the waves and rocking motion. Which is likely similar to conditions you will encounter in the glades.
Just thinking out loud, I anxious to hear about your results.
FE


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:52 pm 
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fusioneng wrote:
Our TI is bigger than a getaway, FE


Bigger in what sense? Max length and width? I would say overall mass goes to the Getaway hands down.
TI fully rigged 240#
Getaway fully rigged 390#

NuCanoe has recently come out with a flex bicycle/ propellor drive system that may be adaptable though I doubt has the low-end power to efficiently move the Getaway, but a prop change could fix that.

https://www.nucanoe.com/pedal-power/

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sPuwAkQd5rs

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:45 pm 
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Cat hulls are always way more efficient verses displacement hulls, ( no displacement speed limit).
That's why cats are so fast....
It's of course just my opinion, but imagining a working mirage drive on a getaway, (obviously not all loaded down to max), in my mind would peddle a little easier than a TI, (the TI hull is not ideal, longer, and way fatter), and the ama's drag a lot. In calm conditions. Of course I could be wrong.
All just my opinion
FE


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:23 pm 
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Yes he flexible hose drive is the proverbial Bacon to the BLT here! That opens up a lot of options for placement on the getaway. It may even allow for thee most comfortable seat on the boat too. Forward facing, in a chair with a back rest — on cat? I feel like one could peddle for miles failrly well. Ofcourse the final step would be to find a place to mount a cup holder. :)

Hose drive to a mirage drive??? Why hasnt that happened yet? Sounds awesome!

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:06 pm 
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Actually there may be a way to compare efficiency between the getaway and TI.
Several Getaway owners have Outboards, (and possibly torqeedos) mounted on their getaways, (same motors many TI use). If we can get guys from both groups to compare a few numbers, we might be able to come up with a comparison that we could relate to mirage propulsion. It would be silly going thru all the work adding a mirage drive if it's not goin to work.
The props on those cable peddle systems look to be highly designed and engineered. Just a guess on my part, (I know a lot about that kind of stuff), I have a gut feeling one of those cable peddle systems will work really well on a getaway, (or any smaller cat). At that point why bother with a mirage drive at all. I think your onto something.
FE


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:47 am 
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fusioneng wrote:
Actually there may be a way to compare efficiency between the getaway and TI.
Several Getaway owners have Outboards, (and possibly torqeedos) mounted on their getaways, (same motors many TI use). If we can get guys from both groups to compare a few numbers, we might be able to come up with a comparison that we could relate to mirage propulsion. It would be silly going thru all the work adding a mirage drive if it's not goin to work.


Perhaps a yet simpler way to measure their relative efficiency is to power at a given speed, depower, and measure how far each boat drifts, which would give a good idea which boat has more drag.

Wouldn't the more efficient hull decelerate slower?

Better yet, tow each vessel with a fish scale in-line and measure the weight of pull at different speeds.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:49 pm 
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A flexi drive hose sounds like an efficiency drain, especially after crud gets in the hose. A cat seems like a good match for efficient long oars, although maybe no room for the sweep area when piled with gear (better yet a yuloh oar for standing rowing at the rear!). There is an Xcat catamaran entered in this glades race which can take a forward facing rowing gizmo that goes 10kph, although I am guessing the race boat may be going only with sails:




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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:14 pm 
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We’re 9 days away from race day! Miss Marie, our Hobie Getaway is ready to launch. Gear is checked, food and supplies are accounted for, plb’s and GPS connects have fresh batteries and drysuits are fresh back from NRS with new gaskets. Our double secret, carefully selected routes through the shallow, winding, and slightly upwind channels of Florida Bay in the Everglades National Parks have been logged in our Garmin, synced in Navionics and plotted oldschool style on our paper 33E NOAA charts. All we have left to do is give Miss Marie a sudsy bath so she is show ready on launch day.

I’ll try to remember to paste a link to our SPOT GPS tracker next week. In the meantime here’s the event’s tracking website. We’re in the Hobie Cat class under the Skipper name “Coastie.”

http://www.watertribe.com/Events/ChallengeGMapper.aspx

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