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| Smaller sail for higher winds http://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=56566 |
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| Author: | leecea [ Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Smaller sail for higher winds |
There were some days last year when I declined to sail because of the wind speed. I know people take Waves out in crazy winds, but I'm not willing or able to do that yet. I wonder whether it would work to have a spare Wave sail shortened by a sail maker removing the bottom panel and doing the appropriate reinforcing for the new clew and tack points. Then add a pigtail of the right length to the halyard so the shortened sail sits further down the mast and the foot of the sail is at the same place as the original sail foot would be, so the sheeting angle is the same. Maybe this would fail because the sail shape would be all wrong or stresses would be in the wrong place? Another option is to have a shorter sail custom made. Is that a better idea? Is there some reason none of this would work and I should give up on the idea? If it is a sensible idea, is there some way to estimate the size the small sail should be? For example, if I want something that handles 25 knots the same way that the standard sail handles 15 knots, do I go with 60% of the sq. ft? Thanks! |
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| Author: | dorienc [ Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smaller sail for higher winds |
There's an active thread on the Getaway forum about reefing the mainsail. Very similar to your concerns. One of the problems is the plastic comp tip won't do an adequate job of holding the sail in place when reefed (or a smaller sail is used). |
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| Author: | leecea [ Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smaller sail for higher winds |
Thanks. Yes, that is a thread I have been following but reefing without a boom didn't seem like a good idea. That's why I thought about a smaller sail. I have seen comments about the comptip in that thread and others, but I see different explanations for why you can't use a smaller sail. I'd still be using the notch at the top of the mast to catch the halyard 'bead'. Why does having the sail lower cause problems? Does the comptip flex enough that the added halyard pigtail would exert an outward pull on the top of the sail? If Matt says it can't work, I guess that's it, but I'd love to know why. |
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| Author: | Tom Kirkman [ Wed Dec 09, 2015 6:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smaller sail for higher winds |
There are various boats that carry "storm sails." The Weta people offer one for their boat. These are essentially shorter and less powerful versions of the standard main. And because they ride lower, the heeling effect from the top of the mast is vastly reduced. It is a viable concept provided the sail is properly shaped. Generally you have to fashion a strop to take up the former distance to the top of the mast and allow the thimble on the halyard to lock as before. |
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| Author: | leecea [ Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smaller sail for higher winds |
FYI: I found some more info on other forums and now I understand why this is not a good idea. Extending the halyard wire to reach a lowered sail would changed the angle of the pull and remove the tension required to help keep the sail seated in the luff track. |
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| Author: | Tom Kirkman [ Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smaller sail for higher winds |
A proper storm sail will have a luff around mast buckle strap at the foot to remedy that. |
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| Author: | leecea [ Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smaller sail for higher winds |
I believe the issue is at the head of the sail because the comptip's luff track is plastic. |
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| Author: | dorienc [ Thu Dec 10, 2015 6:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smaller sail for higher winds |
So if the sail were lowered below the comp tip, it might work better. I'm not sure if it's feasible to reef it that much, though. |
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| Author: | Tom Kirkman [ Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smaller sail for higher winds |
What can happen, in rare cases, is that as the head of the sail becomes lower on the mast, the halyard is no longer pulling directly across and towards the mast. It now only pulls upward, which when coupled with the sheet pull from the rear can result in the bolt rope at the top of the sail pulling out of the luff track. And once that starts, you can easily have the entire luff come out of the track. But.... this is pretty rare. Roughly the same situation exists any time you reef a sail, which is effectively the same thing as running a shorter storm sail. |
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| Author: | John Lunn [ Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smaller sail for higher winds |
What would happen if you took an old sail, and had a sail maker recut it so it was 'skinnier'? Sure, there would still be some sail area up high, however if it were very skinny at the top, probably it would achieve what you are looking for. Our problem (on the H18) is not wind speed, but gusts. I'd love to go out on a Wave in 20 or so knots of trade wind - good steady wind. Somewhere I have a picture or a video of Matt Miller driving a Wave in those winds at the Bitter End Yacht Club in the BVI's. So how about taking a holiday there, and trying a Wave in those winds for practice? To me, it's still the gusts, they'll get you every time. |
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| Author: | Tom Kirkman [ Sat Dec 12, 2015 4:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smaller sail for higher winds |
Never cleat the sail in high winds (nor much else, for that matter) and remember.... Ease, Hike, Trim. |
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| Author: | leecea [ Sun Dec 13, 2015 2:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smaller sail for higher winds |
John Lunn wrote: I'd love to go out on a Wave in 20 or so knots of trade wind - good steady wind. Somewhere I have a picture or a video of Matt Miller driving a Wave in those winds at the Bitter End Yacht Club in the BVI's. So how about taking a holiday there, and trying a Wave in those winds for practice? It's a good idea... if I was a highly-paid Hobie employee who could afford >$1000/night to stay there 
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| Author: | Gordo Bagley [ Sat Jan 02, 2016 10:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smaller sail for higher winds |
Here where we sail there are two Hobies with full mainsails of HCC mfg. that have zippers sewn in just below the second batten up for an easy reduction of sail. A clew grommet is there. This may have been a product of demand, like your concerns indicate. However, the same problem exists of pulling the luff rope out of the plastic track on the comptip. You could raise the smaller sail up, then lay the boat over and tie a small rope around the mast to act as a preventer for the problem. However, if you spend a great deal of time sailing the boat, in time your fears will be allayed. The boat is hard to capsize in most sailable winds. I've sailed full sail to weather back in squalls up to over 40k, albeit it was hair raising and pure survival. The key I've learned from an informative clinic years ago (Gavin Colby, 2 time World Champion H16) is that if you don't want to capsize, you should be hand holding your main for immediate release. A cleated main block is a recipe for capsize in a hard puff everytime since you cannot uncleat and release fast enough. Gavin called cleaters '...warm shower takers'. I always sail with bare ratchet blocks, with cleat removed. Sailing hundreds of times, many of which were in gales, I've had no capsizes on Lake Mead, which is a very treacherous lake at times. 'No man or beast' they say here, but on a Wave that may not apply. Perhaps the most stable and safe catamaran ever built. For Lake Mead - it was made for it! |
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