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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:50 pm 
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Location: Panama City Beach
I can only give my opinion between the outback & the revo. Outback is a bit more stable, but the revo is plenty stable if that makes sense. Revo is faster and tracks better, outback is good if you want to be able to stand and sight fish in flats. outback does better in surf but as someone mentioned if the drive were to break it SUCKS to paddle. I fish from a revo now offshore and love it!

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 1:05 am 
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Location: Auckland NZ
Gday Kiwiyaka & charlief & welcome to the growing bandof Hobie Mirage Kayak converts in NZ.

Charlie is right: I live in Takapuna & my home cruising fishing sailing ground is the Rangi channel.

I have been using Hobie kayaks for several year snow and am onto my 5th boat - from a start with an Outback - then an A which I sold, and currently we have 1xAI, 1xA, and an outfitter.

Happy to chat anytime & help, if I can, with any questions re kayak selection, sailing which I do a lot of (kayak sailing and AI sailing), rigging etc. Talk to Gavin at boat bits & he can pass on my contact details or IM me here (I think that is doable). Or catch me out on the water (In Aucland I always launch at the very south end of Takapuna beach at the bottom of Hauraki Road) and I am usually somewhere between there and the Rangi lighthouse; all my Kayaks are the Papaya Yellow colour.

Rgds,

Stobbo


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:28 pm 
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Location: NW Arkansas
stobbo did you not like sailing the outback. If you did sail it did you do any special rigging. I'm interested in rigging my outback for sailing and I've never sailed before.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:21 am 
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Location: Hawaii, Big Island
IMHO Adventure, kayak or AI mode wins hands down for open ocean pelagics.

See fishing photos.

Aloha

Dan

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:44 pm 
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Location: Auckland NZ
MB,

sorry for the delay in responding.

Sure I used to sail the Outback & enjoyed it well enough but altogether the Adventure is a better sailing experience (better than all of the Hobie boats including the AI IMNSHO).

The reasons are a) that the Adventure is a faster boat so it goes better under sail, pedal & paddle and b) the Adventure has a daggerboard which significantly improves the boat's upwind performance (important in the tidal waters that I sail in).

The reason I prefer sailing my Adventure over sailing the same hull as an Adventure Island is that it is more of a challenge to sail the Adventure well than it is to sail the AI: there's no danger of a capsize in the AI. Also the AI is a whole lot heavier and complicated to transport and set up and, should the wind drop, it will not be as easy to pedal back. Sure the AI is faster - but the overall sailing experience is a whole lot wetter (as long as you successfully avoid a capsize) ! Finally, I usually pedal/sail out, fish and then pedail/sail back -I find that fishing from the Adventure Island is more difficult thant the Adventure because of the problem of fishing over the amas and stowing the mast out of the way.

Anyway, your question was about the Outback - go for it ! It sails well enough as long as you recognise that it is not going to sail very well upwind and you plan your sailing trips accordingly.

The sail kit works perfectly OK "out of the box" -- a couple of mods I would make would be to:
a) buy 2 small turning blocks through which to lead the sheet (i.e. the rope tied to the sail to alter the sail's angle to the wind) so as to reduce friction in the rope - that way if you need to de-power the sail in a hurry (to avoid a capsize) you can because the rope will run so much easier through the blocks. On my boats I have tied (i.e. no holes in boat!!) with light line, one block to the rear padeye and one to the plastic padeye in the RHS of the cockpit to the front of the parcel tray. From the helmsman's right hand the sheet then leads forward through the block in the cockpit, back through the block at the rear padeye, up to the sail. Because the sheet now comes to the helmsman's hand from the front of the cockpit, a pull (rather than a push) pulls the sheet in (which I find more comfortable and logical)
b) tie a small loop of bungee somewhere in the front deck area (I have an Adventure and I tie this loop to the bungee that holds the front hatch lid shut - but I do not think the Outback has the same lid so you will have to experiment to finsd a place to tie it - I am sure there'll be something in about the right position). This allows you to take down the mast roll up the sail and secure both to the front of the boat by poking the mast foot into the loop; the mast will lie fore & aft along the gunwale of the boat beside the helpsman's seat. If you have a rod in the rear rod holder this will stop the mast sliding off into the water but you may need to add some kind of bungee-strap-with-hook on the gunwale behind the seat to properly secure it. Now you can take the mast down & stow it & put it up again whenever you want simply by hotching forward in your seat far enough to put the mast into the mast base & secure the sail foot - the procedure to deploy is: 1. Pedal & steer so as to point the boat directly into the wind; 2. Remove rolled up mast & sail from bungees & place it in your lap across the boat (tie the sheet to the "clew" if not already tied on - I always leave mine tied on and release the sheet from the cleat if cleated); 3. Hotch forward in your seat to access the mast base, unhook the sail "gasket" line (if you have one, which you should) from the hook at the clew of the sail so that the sail will unroll & push the mast into position in the mast base; 4. Pull the sail out so that it "unfurls" (i.e. unrolls) from the mast - if you are still "head-to-wind" it will flap harmlessly; 5. Secure the bungee at the foot of the sail to the hook beneath the mast base; 6. Hotch back into your seat; 7. Pedal/steer onto the desired "tack"; 8. "Sheet" (i.e. pull) in the sail and sail away under the admiring gaze of the surf bunnies on the shore who have been watching your progress with great interest.
c) you might want to install a "clam cleat" to belay the sheet while sailing so that you can sail hands free - you only need a very small one and there are various models to choose from - I used one which fitted onto a wedge to angle the cleat towards the rope and which had a thing called a keeper around it to stop the rope from catching on the cleat unexpectedly. Worked really well - always gave a positive release of the sheet and was very adjustable. I placed mine on the vertical wall inside the parcel tray of my Adventure did require drilling though!).

When you want to push the envelope/get more speed in light winds it is possible to add a foresail (jib) but this really requires that you stay (i.e. support) the mast with "wires" (I use very light spectra line). This is a great addition but adds a lot of complexity and even in light winds it requires a methodical approach and a clear head to avoid a ducking... turns a sailing toy into a proper yacht though ! I have posted elsewhere on these forums about this mod if you are interested.

Hope this helps. Enjoy :P


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:31 am 
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Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Cheers Stobbo, gald to hear the adventure can sail without the amas


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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 3:46 pm 
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Not sure why some knock the outback so strongly for ocean fishing. Understand that it may not be your choice but it works fine. Yes it is harder to paddle then some of the others but using a paddle on any craft is harder than say an electric motor etc . . . If I didn't want to get wet or work a bit to get somewhere then I would not use a yak of any type. I wrote this before in an outback vs rev discussion so I will keep it short here. I also swim, scuba, and skin dive. I found there was less of a chance of me flipping the yak on myself with the outback when getting back in, especially with gear on. Would it be harder to paddle the outback a long way, sure. And it may become necessary maybe once every year or so. On the other hand I will be getting in and out of the yak quite often as well as drifting in chop so the outback fits me better. Do a google search for outback and ocean fishing and you will find a number of people who fish using it. In fact, some who make fishing videos use it all the time. That does not mean it is right for eveyone. Each yak has its trade offs just like everything else. I just would not pronounce it as a terrible choice. It's just not everyones choice. :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 11:04 pm 
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Location: Australia
Quote:
Not sure why some knock the outback so strongly for ocean fishing.


That would be because there are other models so much better suited for it. The Outback is plenty stable enough - no one will argue that. But good stability does not an ocean-going kayak make.

You can take the OB into open water, but unless its a real good day, don't plan to go far, or get terribly ambitious. Here's a few simple bullet points as to why the OB is the inferior off shore yak (compared to revo, Adv, AI):

- Paddles poorly. End up a fair distance out, have a problem with mirage drive, have fun paddling back.

- Handles choppy water poorly. Its bow shape will see it ride up and over any swell wave, and will come crashing down with a splashing thud. Wet, bumpy, inefficient and slow.

- Lots of freeboard. Wind can have its way with the OB, so pick your days. if there is any chance of strong off shore winds, the OB is one of the worst choices of kayak.

Don't get me wrong - it can be done. Hell, I've done it in a Sport. But now I've tried the Revo and Adv, I know better. The callifornian hull shape design of the OB and SPort just don't compare favourably to the Revo and Adv for open water conditions, especially here in Australia where it is rarely calm. And yes, I've owned all 4 (Sport, OB, Revo, Adv) and am now on my 5th (AI).

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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:17 pm 
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Well, we just see the world, and relate to it differently. Good luck with that.


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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:09 pm 
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What exactly do you suggest I need luck with?

And yes... one can fish in open water from an Outback. No need to google for verification. That doesn't mean there aren't better options though, which there are. Its why there are 15 or so models in the range. Horses for courses. trust me... when Hobie built the Outback, they weren't thinking of open ocean fishing. They weren't thinking of estuary fishing when they made the Adventure either, but that doesn't mean you cant use it there.

Perhaps I need to put this another way. On anything less than a near perfect day, the Revo and Adv (for examples) would perform much better than an OB... especially if any real distance is involved.

I'm willing to bet you own an Outback. I'm also willing to bet that you have not tried a Revo and or Adv off shore (or at all). I have tried all 3 - owned all 3 in fact. Now, I understand that kayaking is very much an individual sport, and what is right for one, maybe not for the next. But trust me, the design paradigms of the Revo and Adv make it a better kayak for open water. Whether or not you think they are as good a fishing platform is very much an individual choice, which may or may not be founded on personal experience. All I can say in conclusion is that if you only really have experience on the OB, then you're really not qualified to compare or offer anything than your assumption.

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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 11:44 pm 
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This is pointless. Of course I own an OB, I referenced a thread that stated that. I am amazed but not surprised you would make statements about my experience level without any basis to do so. You ever think of asking? But then you write the OB is not a good choice for ocean use and the Rev would be a better choice even though you don't know what I or anyone else may be using it for. Don't suppose you ever asked that question either. Once any exchange of opinion had degraded to this it's not worth continuing. I'm out.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:10 am 
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Location: Victoria, Australia
Geez Jake2C, what are you all rilled up over, according to the thread topic
Quote:
Best offshore fishing kayak?

and the brief given;
kiwiyaka wrote:
Hi keen to hear how people find the hobie revo or outback for offshore fishing as i'm looking at selling my ocean kayak prowler 4.1m. from what i have watched looks like the revo or outback are the obivous choices, but have no idea as i have never been in ether yaks. Need something to land 10kg+ fish

Yakass has pretty much covered it for what it is, I didn't see any attack, just the facts. If the brief was for a stable dive yak that could make it offshore, the Outback could easily be considered, but in this case, no it really is not suited and there are far better choices.

If a jockey asked for a Melbourne Cup winner, would you give him a camel ?

Offshore an Outback is a slow rough ride, just like a camel in the Melbourne Cup.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:44 pm 
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Jeebus Jake, the thread topic is 'best off shore kayak', so it doesn't matter to me what you use your kayak for. Put it in your swimming pool for all I care, that doesn't change my assertion that the Outback is not the best open water kayak in Hobies range. Thats just a fact, believe it or not, like it or not. Thats not saying it is any less quality (its the same) or any less suitable for what you use it for. Hell, for all I know, your part of the world has calm ocean waters. If thats the case, then the difference separating performance is minimal.

Listen Jake, you're debating here with someone who has used all models discussed extensively, have worked for Hobie (so I know a thing or two about why they designed what they did) and now sell them for a living, and have the experiences of hundreds of customers to go on, as well as hundreds of members from my kayak fishing website, now in it's 4th year. I'm not just speaking from personal opinion here, I'm speaking from experience.

I'll leave you with something to think about. In the store I work in, the OB is the one kayak most upgraded from. Which is to say we see more people trade in Ob's to get revos, Adv and especially AI's than any other boat. We rarely see people upgrading from another model to an OB. There's a reason for it, and that reason is a desire for increased performance in open water.

Calm down mate. Not having a go at you or the OB - its a great yak, just as good as any other in many ways, but not in open water performance. It is what it is.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:06 pm 
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Well even if someone had to get riled up in this conversation I'm glad it took place, some useful information was brought to light. It mostly confirmed my web research. I almost bought a revo but ended up with an outback. I fish skinny and I mean skinny river backwaters most of the time shielded from wind and waves/currents. I also fish very occasionally larger lakes and such too. I decided that I should buy the yak that fits my needs 95% of the time instead of getting the faster one. It's common that I have to lean over hard and pull myself under a branch or fallen log to get to that fishing hole and primary stability is paramount...and the outback is FAST (compared to solo paddling my old p.o.s. canoe :lol: ) but I still find myself dreaming of how fast and dry that revo would be when I'm on a lake getting sprayed over the bow.

This is my first yak and I'm taking it to the ocean in 2 days. I think I'll keep it in the backwaters though.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:35 pm 
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Quote:
Well even if someone had to get riled up in this conversation I'm glad it took place, some useful information was brought to light. It mostly confirmed my web research. I almost bought a revo but ended up with an outback. I fish skinny and I mean skinny river backwaters most of the time shielded from wind and waves/currents.


Sounds like you made a good decision. Thats exactly the kind of conditions that the OB excels in, and any notable performance differences between the models is minimized or nullified completely. And its this kind of kayak fishing most people do, making it no great surprise that the OB is still probably the most popular fishing kayak.

Personally, I'd still opt for a Revo for that kind of stuff (and use my Adventure in it every now and then) instead of an OB, but thats mainly only because I like using the paddles as well, and yes, like to be able to go a little faster, and not have to work quite so hard to reach whatever speed I'm moving at. Very much a personal preference in that regard, though personal preference has little to do with what I mentioned earlier.

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