Return to Hobie.com

Hobie Forums

It is currently Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:27 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:20 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:52 am
Posts: 12
@Husse0416 I just tried to help, that's all. It's something I tried after looking into it, and it worked. It's not like I suggested a $300 fix and you all want my theory explained before spending that much cash; I'd understand that. It's $5 people.

You got some people here that rather than saying 'thank you', they love being complete dicks (pmmpete). Guess you all have masters in physics -- good for you.

You're free not to take my advice. Simple enough.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:49 pm 
Offline
Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 2773
Location: Escondido
Filippodg, thanks for sharing your information. I suspect some here are taking issue with the explanation rather than the result. When we observe something it's natural to look for a reason why. I like mmiller's reason:
mmiller wrote:
Are they wedged into the aft area which is expanding the structure (keeping it full)? That would increase buoyancy possibly. If the hull compresses (under waterline) that would decrease buoyancy.
The pool noodles look like a tight fit in the Outback sponsons back in that rear hatch area. By expanding the sides a modest amount (or keeping them expanded in the water, the boat would gain volume and the rear deck would sit higher. If so, this is a great potential improvement.

One of the Outback's weak points IMO is that the center of weight sits behind the center of lift. Add weight to the cargo area and the boat squats before it even goes anywhere, as Howie's picture on pg. 1 shows (bow practically out of the water, stern low). WAVERIDER suggested a great remedy -- counterbalance with weight in the bow (or transfer some of the weight forward). Batteries, wheels, caught fish are good candidates. The boat always performs best (and drains best) when sitting on its lines (essentially level). Adding weight doesn't affect your boat's performance by much, but how you distribute it has everything to do with performance and stability. 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:38 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:46 am
Posts: 239
Location: Sweden, sjöbo
filippodg wrote:
@Husse0416 I just tried to help, that's all. It's something I tried after looking into it, and it worked. It's not like I suggested a $300 fix and you all want my theory explained before spending that much cash; I'd understand that. It's $5 people.

You got some people here that rather than saying 'thank you', they love being complete dicks (pmmpete). Guess you all have masters in physics -- good for you.

You're free not to take my advice. Simple enough.



I am so sorry that you take offence about getting some well deserved critisism about this "fix" of yours that I (and I guess lots of others on the forum) render totally useless.
Unless you add volume to the outside of the hull you can not increase the bouancy this way!

And its not about the cost, its a matter of understanding that just loosly "popping in" pool noodles has no affect at all on the boyancy of the kayak. A bad advice is simly a bad advice. Sure it would have been even worse if it had cost $300 but thats not the point is it?!

I do not understand how you notice that this makes a difference? Maybe its just a "feeling" you get and this might work for you.... but its not an advice that should be passed on as a fix to this problem.
you are stating to get a 3 inch higher ride in the back... that would approximately account for an increase boyance of about 50Lbs in the rear. Sorry but I do not believe this to be true.

What might have some positive effect on the boyancy is to press in some pieces of foam inside the hull to press down/lower the plastic bottom of the hull a little and so making the outside volume in the rear a little bigger.
But if I got your descriprion correct this is not what you did with the pool noddles in your kayak? As I understand your description and pics they were loosley placed inside... or did I missunderstand this?

Anyway my intension is surely not to offend you ...
For instance I never called you a "dick" or any other derogatory statement as you just did in your last post.... very bad form mate!!
But the fact that you clearly state that you somehow managed to overcome the laws of psysics (in this case Archimedes' principle) is a bit hilarious so forgive me if I have some fun!
If you post on a forum you must be prepared to get opposed by others and also prove your Point.... if you have one...
:D

All the best!
/Gustav

_________________
Sailing my TI and fishing.... thats bliss!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:23 am 
Offline
Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 2773
Location: Escondido
I followed up on filippodg's pool noddle idea and found that it was pretty good after all. Our boats compress slightly when on the water, even more when we add our combined body and gear weight. This varies by model and location on the boat, but you can verify this by marking the hull depth with a stick, 1) inverted, 2) on the water empty and 3) on the water loaded. Rather than stuffing pool noodles on the sides to rigidify the hull, I made some noodle columns (kept from bowing with skewers). This accomplished two things on the project TI: 1) supporting existing areas that were flexing, and 2) decompressing some areas that had sagged over the years sitting upright in cradles. The columns were held in position with silicone calk. Here's what they look like:

Image

Image

The results were noticeable. There was less squatting in the stern (indicated by how much rudder was showing at prescribed speed) and the bow stayed down, so the boat rode more level than before. Your results may vary depending on weight, location of weight, and individual boat design. 8)

Filippodg made himself vulnerable by attempting to explain his results and a few armchair critics here took full advantage of this, missing the positive outcome all together. That's unfortunate -- filippodg has not returned to the forum since. To filippodg -- thanks for the idea -- it was very useful. Don't let a few "dicks" discourage you from contributing to the forum; every forum seems to have some! :roll:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:43 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 1:27 am
Posts: 305
Comparing my old 2006 adventure side by side with my 2016 revo 16, the old yak sits a noticeable inch or so lower on the ground, obviously due to sagging with age. No doubt this loss of volume has an effect on load carrying capacity even if only minimal, especially in the rear which has no vertical bracing. It at least means the bottom of the tankwell is closer to water level, hence submerges sooner when underway.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:07 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:09 am
Posts: 29
[quote="Roadrunner" Rather than stuffing pool noodles on the sides to rigidify the hull, I made some noodle columns (kept from bowing with skewers). This accomplished two things on the project TI: 1) supporting existing areas that were flexing, and 2) decompressing some areas that had sagged over the years sitting upright in cradles. The columns were held in position with silicone calk. [/quote]

Roadrunner, what did you use as the skewers to stop the columns from bowing?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:24 pm 
Offline
Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 2773
Location: Escondido
sebby wrote:
Roadrunner, what did you use as the skewers to stop the columns from bowing?
I had these bamboo skewers laying around. They are about 8" x 1/8" and look like this:

Image

They run about $2 for a package of 100 at a party supply store or maybe Walmart, etc. Call first as they may be seasonal.

After fitting the final length of the pool noodles, I slip 3 in triangle formation in the pillars, cutting them about 1" shorter than the pillar to allow for compression, as applicable. This stiffens them without interfering with their support function. I used whatever pool noodles I had laying around but if you have a choice, solid is better than hollow (holds their shape better). 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:18 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:09 am
Posts: 29
@Roadrunner thanks!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:57 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:47 am
Posts: 1
Roadrunner wrote:
I followed up on filippodg's pool noddle idea and found that it was pretty good after all. Our boats compress slightly when on the water, even more when we add our combined body and gear weight. This varies by model and location on the boat, but you can verify this by marking the hull depth with a stick, 1) inverted, 2) on the water empty and 3) on the water loaded. Rather than stuffing pool noodles on the sides to rigidify the hull, I made some noodle columns (kept from bowing with skewers). This accomplished two things on the project TI: 1) supporting existing areas that were flexing, and 2) decompressing some areas that had sagged over the years sitting upright in cradles. The columns were held in position with silicone calk. Here's what they look like:

Image

Image

The results were noticeable. There was less squatting in the stern (indicated by how much rudder was showing at prescribed speed) and the bow stayed down, so the boat rode more level than before. Your results may vary depending on weight, location of weight, and individual boat design. 8)

Filippodg made himself vulnerable by attempting to explain his results and a few armchair critics here took full advantage of this, missing the positive outcome all together. That's unfortunate -- filippodg has not returned to the forum since. To filippodg -- thanks for the idea -- it was very useful. Don't let a few "dicks" discourage you from contributing to the forum; every forum seems to have some! :roll:



This is very interesting. I’m 6’3” and hover around 300 pounds. I don’t bring a lot of gear, maybe a milk crate, couple small tackle boxes and at max 3 rods. But being so big i do nice that when i peddle water does flow out of the rear cargo area and over the hatch. I do find water inside but i always make sure drain after every use. I’m going to give this a shot and the next warm day we have up here in NY i will take it for a test run. Thanks for the idea Roadrunner!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:42 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:26 pm
Posts: 3
roneyk wrote:
The photo you posted is exactly how the outback should look on the water. Mine is definitely lower to the water than the photo even when there is no water in it. I don't have anything heavy on the back. Just a h-crate and few rods and very small cooler with couple of drinks. I have just purchased bilge pump to carry on the kayak just in case rear cargo area gets flooded. Guess I just have to deal with it... very disappointed.. needless to say..
I have another question...
Regarding a cart, I have a standard cart. Is there a way to just buy the wheels to upgrade to Heavy duty or Trax2? Will the width of the wheel fit the standard cart?
Thanks in advance...



Has there been any new ideas to keep the back end up on the Outback? I too am disappointed at how low I sit in my new Outback. I read this forum a few months ago and did install some custom cut pool noodles, and it didn't help. And these are rated for 400 lbs?

I too am disappointed with how low the rear end sits in the water and I just found out how dangerous sitting this low can become. On a recent fishing trip to Sea of Cortez, my Outback filled about a third way INSIDE with water and I didn't realize it until it was too late. Now I must admit to a really dumb mistake made on my part: Since I launched at really low tide, I had to roll out quite a ways, and instead of walking to cart back to the truck, I stuck it upside down in the drain scuppers - dumb, dumb, dumb. Waves were 2 -3 feet this day and Fished for 4 hours.

On the way back, I then notice the waves had more control than normal, then soon realized the situation and peddled like a mad man. Had maybe a 1/4 mile to go, and I was rolled by a wave. Now this is was not a good situation. Started swimming and pulling, swimming and pulling. Shore was not getting closer, but a rock pile sticking up a couple of feet was and I eventually got over to this little bit of rock, pulling and swimming. Opened the ports and tried to empty this water out. I made some headway between the waves offsetting my efforts. Tide on the rise, and soon this rock pile would be gone!

Fortunately, after maybe 10 minutes, a Mexican fisherman in a Panga came to my rescue and pulled me to shore. Cold, embarrassed and grateful, I reach into my pocket to tip the guy - of course everything in my front pockets is gone!

I will also admit I stored the battery for my depth finder in the rear hatch adding to the rear weight. Going forward, that will get moved to the front! i admit to mistakes, but bottom line: Hobie, these Outbacks sit too low in the rear for mid size people.

This is a 2017 Hobie Outback. I can't seem to attach a pic of me and my rig...

Dave


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:25 pm 
Offline
Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 2773
Location: Escondido
Hi Dave and welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear about your near misfortune! It's a good lesson for all of us to keep the cargo well scuppers open and cargo weight balanced.

Being lazy, I always carry the cart on the boat, sometimes forward for balance.
Image

If it wouldn't interfere with your fishing, it might be viable to rig up a bow to cockpit bungee to stow your wheels forward on the Outback.

Regardless, thanks for sharing your experience! 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:54 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 1:27 am
Posts: 305
Diameter of cart posts shouldn't seal scuppers? Doesn't a 2015 model have a transducer scupper that also drains ?water

How does water in the tankwell effectively fill hull with water, causing it to sink? How is water getting into hull?

If you balanced the load with ballast in the front wouldn't that level the kayak so it wasn't ass down.

Is it possible that too much load in rear causing ass down allows water in through rudder control lines which may not have sufficient sealing or clipped up properly.

A revo 16/adventure is way lower in the water at the back than an outback and has effectively a flooded tankwell when underway, yet doesn't take on excessive water unless there is leak somewhere.

If it was a basic design issue then all outbacks would have a serious issue, but reality is they dont. So waht is different in these cases


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:59 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:55 pm
Posts: 26
Location: Cedar Key, FL
I know this isn't much help, but I've had an '04 Outback and now have a '14 and neither had a problem with taking on water in the rear. I'm 6'4" and about 190 lbs, so I'm not pushing the max load on boat, but I'm not a featherweight either.

I don't carry much fishing gear in terms of weight, but I do go out in some nasty weather (usually with a sail) in the gulf, so my Outbacks have taken a beating in terms of choppy conditions.

The only issue I've had was some leakage in the '04 in the cam bolt area, but that was never severe enough to cause a problem (a few cups of water after a full day kayaking).

FWIW, I think there is either something unusual in your usage pattern or a defect in your particular Outback. I don't think it's a design issue.

Just my $.02.

_________________
2014 Outback
2016 Outfitter


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:39 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:26 pm
Posts: 3
Image

Hopefully this photo appears!

This is a normal day and not much in the box. Depth finder battery is in the rear hatch too.

Add 2 - 3 foot waves for 4 hours and some more weight, plug the scuppers and trouble. Sure won't repeat this situation!

Had to be some leakage thru the hatch plus rudder holes?

I have had some water on the inside before on bumpy days, but only a few cups at most.

Dave


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:38 pm 
Offline
Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 2773
Location: Escondido
AzDave wrote:
Image
You can see the problem here -- bow is high and stern is low because the CG is in the back part of the boat. Here is a more exaggerated version of the same concept:
Image

If you re-balance your load, even if you have to use ballast in the nose, you will find your boat more stable, drier, faster and easier to handle. Try it and your problem should go away. The Outback has no trouble with the weight -- as long as it's reasonably balanced. If you keep your hatches closed (especially bow hatch) except when accessing, you will find a capsized boat much easier to deal with. As you know from experience, a water-filled boat is about impossible to move! :wink:
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
© Hobie Cat Company. All rights reserved.
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group