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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:04 pm 
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Debating whether to get a micro-pole or rear mounted trolling motor on PA12. I see value in both but really can't decide. Any thoughts?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:28 am 
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Location: S. Texas
Power pole hands down. Trolling motor depending on where you are means registration. Then there is weight and battery maintenance. I always think if you're gonna get a TM just get a jon boat. Peddle power isn't that tiring.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:06 am 
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Certainly two different uses. As far as peddle power not being that tiring, after 5-6 hours out on the water, my trolling motor is a major factor in getting back to shore. When peddling against wind and tide, my legs can be beat.
I'm in pretty good shape, but at age 66 my option is the motor. I also fish in depths of 20-30 feet many times, so a micro-pole would be of little use. Like I said, it depends on your personal needs.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:30 pm 
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Thanks for response.

Pro of micro-pole - ease of staking out, and pulling up.
Con of micro-pole - can't really find one. I would like to find 10' pole though. Anyone use longer stake-out pole?

Pro of trolling motor - can stand while casting, which I Prefer.
Con of trolling motor - battery weight is biggest, registration isn't too big of a deal.

My main lake is reservoir that is very flat and 10' -11' max depth, 95% of lake is 6' -8' or less, a lot is sub 3'. I don't do big water so distance not an issue.

Really both would be useful.....decisions....decisions.....


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:12 pm 
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My trolling motor weighs 18lbs and the battery weighs 25lbs......I'm still experimenting with the set-up and will most likely be moving the battery to the forward hold to balance the weight. There is a counter balance on my motor rig.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:52 am 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
This is all just my opinion on the subject. We don't line fish a lot but we do spear fish, (where you can select from the menu ,(lol).
And we are mostly in salt water in swfl and the keys where the distances are huge, and good launch areas are often far and few between. Almost all land is surrounded by bare sand and very shallow water without much to see or catch. Plus in south florida all the shallows get up to 90 plus degrees during the day. We are mostly divers and snorklers and mostly use our TI to get us to interesting destinations where we can see the fish and wildlife (ie... coral reefs, etc). But to each their own.
We have an automatic anchor system on our boat that suspends the anchor above the back of the boat when not in use, the anchor is never removed from the boat. We also have a spool system for the anchor line that keeps the anchor line nice and tidy, (150 ft of 3/8 anchor line when just laid in the boat completely fills the entire boat and becomes a tangled mess quickly). In our case when spear fishing we have about 30 minutes from first kill to when we are surrounded by sharks and have to leave the area. So we have to pull up anchor and move on sometimes 5-10 times a day. Having an easy to deploy automatic anchor systems make it very easy. Keeping the anchor on the forward hatch and the anchor line in a bag is too much work to get out, and when out in open water it's a royal pain to get into any hatches, so if we had an anchor in there we wouldn't use it much. All just my opinion.
Around here we have to contend with tides, the tide is either going in or out, not much in between, we find it pretty difficult to pedal against the tide (exhausting). And with a stock TI in the typical very light winds your sail doesn't help, (it just flops around doing nothing).
Also condition change often with wind shifts where you go out in great wind, then it dies then you have to peddle 5 miles against the current or wind, yea it works but 5 hrs of hard peddling a 1-2 mph can be very exhausting for me anyway. Using the trolling motor for two out of those 5 hrs is great, but once the battery dies your kind of screwed. At one time we had a trolling motor and a pair of 50lb+ batteries, I alway had to have help carrying the batteries from the trunk to the boat. The trolling motor was around 15 lbs and the batteries were over 100 lbs. Sure if you go 2mph the batteris last up to 8 hrs, I can peddle faster than that...
We ended up with small lightweight gas outboards. They get us out to where we want to go (usually 5-10 miles from launch). Once at the destination we tilt them up and peddle/ sail and forget about them. We go thru mangroves, skinny water, and sometimes very shallow water (what kayaks do best), then when it's time to go home we fire the motors and hhead back to launch. The only time the motors are loud and obnoxious is when they are at near wide open throttle. We never run ours like that, 90% of the time the motors are running just above idle and with their underwater exhaust they make no more noise than a torqeedo (pwm squeel). We always have that reserve power available if we need it in an emergency, what we call get out of dodge mode, when a sudden storm comes in (occurs almost daily down here in the summer, almost every afternoon, like clockwork).
Many days we go out and never tilt the outboards down at all, but they remain at the ready in the event of an emergency. Each tank holds 1 liter of fuel which for us is always 2-3 hrs of run time, I can't remember the last time I had to refuel while out on the water (it's been years). Yea I always carry a couple hundred miles worth of fuel on board just in case (2.5 gallons), but have never needed it , we seldom go over 40 miles, and once in a while will do a hundred, but that ends up being a really long and boring day, (sure I like to sail, but not that much, (lol)).
Keep in mind all small outboards are designed to propel a 1500 to 2000 fishing boat to 6 mph for 1 hr run time (the industry standard). Our kayaks are much lighter (mine weighs 230 lbs), and the hulls are very efficient (ours has an 8/1 length/width ratio which makes it very efficient in the water). So we simply don't need all that horsepower to propel the boat. You can easily calculate your horsepower requirements manually or by trial and error. As a perfect example, an evolve or torqeedo 403 puts out 1 hp, and a wot propels the boat to typically 6 mph, (that would be your horsepower requirement (1hp)), actually mine is around 3/4hp for 6 mph). Now you simply lock the throttle at that hp output (which ends up being just above idle), and re- pitch the prop till the boat goes 6mph on flat water with no wind or sails. Unfortunately Honda only makes a 4.5" pitch prop (to propel the stupid standard boat again, which none of us own), so your kind of on your own to design and maky your own props, which really sucks and is totally stupid for us kayakers).
Keep in mind our hulls are displacement hulls and once you get up to displacement speed (in my case around 8mph) your horsepower requirements go up exponentially. In my case it takes 3/4hp to get to 6mph, 5hp to get to 10mph, 8hp to get to 12 mph and over 40hp and massive sailsets to get over 20mph. The hp output from the motors is fixed so all that extra hp has to come from the wings, sails, and pedal drives. Needless to say I don't do 20mph very often becaus it requires in excess of 20mph winds and is no picnic to be out in, especially in such a small and low boat.
All in my twin Hondas weigh 55lbs, that's about half the weight of my previous minkota setup which gave me around 2hrs run time at 6mph. Sure you can get a toqeedo but be prepared to pay 4x the cost, (I simply don't have that kind of money).
The latest 4stroke engines are very quiet, and reliable and if setup properly are very fuel efficient, (we get around 80mpg with ours) where the whole trick to using them is to avoid the trap the manufacturers try to pull you into with one size fits all. Our kayaks are different animals. Maybe in 10-15 yrs or so the electrics will catch up, in the mean time I don't mind spending $.60 cents to a dollar in fuel to go out and do what I want on the weekends.
That's all, just tryin to halp here.
FE


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:29 pm 
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FE, thank you for taking the time for such a detailed post. Unfortunately gas is not an option for me. Most all my yakking is on 1700 acre reservoir that does not allow gas motors, plus other waters in state parks etc don't allow.

When we vacation in SW Florida we hires guides to take us fishing in bays etc.....I am very jealous of those of you who live down there, just a beautiful area.

On our 1700 acre reservoir there is only one public boat launch. From launch site to far side is 2.1m. From Launch site to west branch area is 3.1 miles. Certainly easy to peddle distances, but again the reason for trolling motors was really to stand while pitching docs, banks etc... and moving to cover lots of water.

I am leaning toward micro-pole so I can at least stake where I want to spend a few minutes which out drifting. The peddling gives exercise and I am getting at better peddling and pitching.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:35 pm 
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John made some good points. We all fish a little different. I just had to replace my battery charger and batteries on my boat so I had strong feelings on the matter lol. I like the simplicity of the yak and not having to pay fees, again I'm biased I suppose. I always thought the pp was a waste until I was flipping reeds in about 10-15mph winds. I missed a lot of opportunities because I didn't want to set anchor every 5ft. Now I'm considering maybe a new yak or just getting the new 180 drive and PP. that would make life easier for sure.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:15 am 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
I only described my stuff as an example only. My own needs are totally different from most because of where we live.
We travel a lot inland as well, and don't bother with any of the extra crap when inland (we just leave it all back at our campsite). Lol we have way over 200k miles with camper in tow and Hobies on the roof, actually we are at Fox lake il right now on a 12,000 mile adventure visiting all the national parks. However we had to leave our boat in storage in the midwest 2months ago because we couldn't climb all the mountains with it (our 1/2 ton truck is too small), We are picking the boat up next week, boy did I miss it. (Bouncing off the walls)

I read somewhere that some of the new trolling motors have a hold position feature these days, as well as a return to launch mode. Basically the trolling motor has a gps that turns the motor and reverses the motor automatically to hold the boat in whatever position you set.
The thing would work like both a powerpole and/or anchor in any depth water, and probably quite capable in winds and current.
If your thinking about both a powerpole and a trolling motor, looking into these might be a viable alternative, (I'm sure they are not cheap), but if your looking at both, it might be cost effective killing two birds with one stone.
Just throin out ideas here.
I'm lookin at them mostly because I would love to have somethin like that just because it's really cool. Especially if I could use it in regular kayak mode ( our TI without the ama's big sailsets, or motors which we only use offshore in big water)
FE


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:22 pm 
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Fusion I believe the only trolling motors with those capabilities are 24vlt or 36vlt. They require heavy duty batteries and need a good charger. I have an ultrex on my boat which has the spot hold feature and it is great but to put this on a kayak would need a lot of mods thus being prettt $$$ for a kayak setup. I wouldn't be surprised if someone makes one but as far as I know it isn't a factory made option.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:25 am 
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As OP I wanted to get back and update the thread, I went with the Micro-pole over the trolling motor. At end of day it was cheaper, less complicated, and lighter to an already heavy Kayak.

I bought the Micro-power pole for a little over $1,000 with Lithium battery, but night before install I found Bernies River Stick on web, it is a mechanical (no battery) micro-pole alternative that was $250 vs. $1,000+ for micro-pole., so I returned Micro-pole and ordered River Stick. The River Stick is great, easy to use inexpensive and less prone to breaks. The only difference with River Stick is you need to pull cord to raise/lower instead of pushing button.

Having a micro-pole type anchor system is great, I only use in lakes/ponds but have had no problem holding in place. It comes with 8' pole but I may look for a ten foot.

I may look for trolling motor down the road but don't feel I need one now.


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