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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:44 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:43 pm
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I am looking to add a jib on my adventure Island. Has anyone found a jib that may work? In measuring, I came up with the approximate measurements so hoped to find a factory sail from a dingy or similar small boat.

Luff - 12 -13 ft, Foot - 5-6 ft, Leech - 10-12 ft.

Thanks for any help.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:50 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 3019
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Kayakmike:
Quite a few people are using the Hobie kayak sail on their AI's. they also work on the TI but at only 22 sq ft the Hobie kayak is a little small on the TI.
From my experience on the TI's about 30 sq ft is about as large as you can go on the TI and if I had to guess about 25 sq ft on the AI. I have those PVC furlers on all of mine like everyone makes for the Hobie kayak sails.
A laser 2 jib is very close to your dims, and that's 30 sq ft, your AMA's probably don't have enough floatation to keep you from going over unless you hike out ( that's what I do). The TI's rudder is too small, but the AI rudder might just be ok (with the new up/down rudder). I highly recommend a rear stay line because the mast base is not strong enough in the front back direction to support a large jib.
Good luck
Bob


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:55 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:17 pm
Posts: 679
Location: Auckland NZ
I have successfully used a jib from a Topper sailboat on both my Adventure and AI. It is a small sail (about 1.8 sqm) so it doesn't add a huge amount of drive on the AI (works wonders on the A in light winds though) but on the AI it really helps with tacking.

It is very easy on the AI to become stalled and 'caught in irons' during a tack, which can be a pain if you have pulled the drive and put the plug in for better sailing performance because then you can't just pedal through the tack. I have found that having even a small jib like mine is quite sufficient to help push the nose of the boat through the wind.

My sail is a 'blade' shaped sail - quite tall for its length if you get my meaning - this shape is very suitable to setting inboard of the nose of the boat and I set up a padeye between the bow and the hatch opening to attach the tack of the sail to, an arrangement that worked very well.

Hope this helps.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:07 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Kayakmike:
Here is a thread on my boat (the ultimate tandem island), it's kind of long but hopefully you can glean some information from it that might help you. ( viewtopic.php?f=69&t=33720&start=60 )
The AI and TI have many common parts and mainly the only difference is the TI is a little bigger and has an extra seat.
Most of my mods were done because we typically only have light winds in this area ten months of the year, and I don't know about anyone else but it is just plain boring trying to sail a TI in 5mph winds. Most of the guys in Hawaii and Australia, and the Islands have much better winds, and have no need for any extra sails. In my experience if your average winds are 12-18 mph, just the mainsail alone is almost too much sail for an Island and typically needs to be furled in some.
In my experience adding a jib only adds a couple mph to your top speed typically, but does allow you to sail much closer to the wind, (and faster upwind). I don't know if you noticed it but you may have discovered that it is fairly difficult to tack an AI or TI without an assist from your mirage drives, as they tend to be able to sail around 45 degrees up wind (closer if your pedaling), and getting around to the other tack can be quite tricky without going into irons. The jib changes all that, with my current setup, I can easily sail upwind 20-25 degrees off the wind, in 9-10 mph winds at around 7mph (measured by GPS). My TI tends to want to round up into the wind, so I typically need to pedal lightly to maintain that tack though, otherwise I round up and stop. Probably something to do with the wing jib which is a little different design than a normal jib sails and works on different principles I guess.
Hope this helps you
Bob


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:19 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:04 pm
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Bob, your wing jib looks really nifty. Can you point us to some books or other reference material that could help explain how a wing jib works, and what sort of dimensions are appropriate for other boats?

Thanks!

-Tom


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:47 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Unfortunately you won't find any book on that design, the design doesn't exist anywhere, (especially in sailing books of any kind), it's a totally new concept. It's not really a sail in the sense of the word sail, (primary power source for the boat), because it isn't the primary power source, it was only ever expected to provide 30% of my power requirements, and worked more as an energy amplifier, (kind of like an air conditioner or heat pump works, by taking existing power and amplifying, or making it better).

The wing does nothing unless you are already traveling at least 6-7mph, then it starts working, (it's driven by apparent wind, and doesn't work without it). In other words if you sailing upwind about 10 degrees off the wind and the wind speed is 8 mph, and your forward speed is 8 mph, the wind on your face and across and driving the main sail is 16mph. Because the wing organizes and amplifies the air going over the mainsail, the wing forces the mainsail to do work in conditions it clearly shouldn't be able to do anything but luff, (stall), and shouldn't work according to all sail theory (like being able to sail almost directly upwind).

Keep in mind I only designed all this stuff to suit my own purposes only, and only wrote about it because I was asked to by friends on the forum.

We bought our first TI back in 2010 and wanted to use the boat mostly in the keys for far offshore scuba diving, from the factory, the boat does not have the correct classifications for what we needed, or the speed that we needed so we redesigned the boat to suit our own purposes, (90% of everything was designed back in 2010). We owned 3 TI's over the years and used the daylights out of them most every weekend doing what we love to do. As we wore out one boat we would buy a new one and just transfer all the gadgets to the next one. My criteria was to have a boat that cruises 8-10mph in the typical light wind conditions in the keys, (around 5-10mph winds most of the year), with a strong ability to sail upwind, (around 10-15 degrees off the wind), because when south of the island, if the wind is coming from the north, without that ability you can't get back to shore, (we learned that one the hard way). We wanted around 100 miles per day range, (because the keys are fricken huge), and we would often dive as far as 30 miles from where we launch, (you can count with one finger the good launch sites in key west, (fortunately that spot is only a couple blocks from our house).
Yea we made incremental changes over the years to improve things as I thought of them, the wing jib came along in around 2012-2013, which improved our performance from being able to point 25 deg off the wind and sail 6-7 mph in 5-6mph winds with a regular jib. To my final design which easily achieved 8-10 mph cruise speed upwind in around 5-7 mph winds pointing around 10-15 degrees off the wind, (dozens of incredibly boring youtube videos out there showing that). Obviously I thought it was kind of cool stuff, but got roasted by the Hobie community pretty much constantly,,, apparently 98% of the AI/TI community just loves the boat as it comes from the factory, and frown on any mods, (I'm fine with that), I only did the changes to suit my own purposes, and boy did we enjoy our TI, (more than anyone can imagine, checked all the boxes for us), so much so we had around 1/4 million road miles over the years putting the boat in any body of water we could find all over the country with Hobies on the roof and camper in tow, (and some we shouldn't have).
Unfortunately I had to sell the boat last year under doctors orders because of a back injury. But I still have all my stuff stored in the garage, just in case my back gets better, and I can pick up a new TI, (fingers crossed).
Personally I would just pick up a Hobie kayak sail for your Adventure, and rig it to the boat, and have fun with it. You learn a lot messing about, which was always the most fun part for me.
We really loved our adventure series boats, and strongly feel Hobie invented a whole new catagory of sailing craft, (still feel that way).
We had 6 kids and now have over 6 grandkids, (big family), this is one of the many videos that sold me on the TI
[youtube2]https://youtu.be/Pb4orK9MLXE[/youtube2]

Good Luck
FE


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:04 pm
Posts: 5
While the things you did to your boat (especially the double motors for tri-powered sailing) are probably considered sacrilege in the sailing world, I think it's great that you pushed the envelope and found different uses for the TI. Compare your carbon footprint to the average motorboat based fisherman... enough said.

Seems like your wing jib is really more like a foil kite (confusing terminology now that foiling is a thing)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foil_kite. Very interesting idea, sounds like it only really works in your specific use case where motors and pedals were required to keep up your minimum required speed.

Looks like its time for you to do some yoga and physical therapy. Get some more use out of your back.

Thanks for sharing what you did to your TI. It's guys like you that make the internet the wonder that it is.

-Tom


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