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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 12:25 pm 
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I am a newbie and have the revolution mirage 11, I have bought a sail kit and sidekicks for it. I am trying to work out if it’s worth getting the furling kit?
The downside is all the extra hardware to mount on the hull and the extra time setting up to get on the water. Can you just go head to wind and furl the sail manually or is that hard work?

Thank yiu


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:20 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:55 pm
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Location: Cedar Key, FL
Davidwd1306 wrote:
I am a newbie and have the revolution mirage 11, I have bought a sail kit and sidekicks for it. I am trying to work out if it’s worth getting the furling kit?
The downside is all the extra hardware to mount on the hull and the extra time setting up to get on the water. Can you just go head to wind and furl the sail manually or is that hard work?

Thank yiu


I got by fine without a furler for years. I'd launch with the sail furled and then use my big toe to pop the bungie while pedaling into the wind to unfurl the sail. I could even replace the bungie cord with my big toe. Furling the sail without a furler on the water was no fun if the wind kicked up, but it's doable. The problem was that if the wind was really strong, I'd need to wrap the sail around the mast instead of rolling by hand, which required that the main sheet be unrigged for my butt to get wet when I scooched forward to the mast. This also meant that I could not unfurl the sail again without getting out of the kayak to rig the main sheet.

Since I got a furler, I'd never think of going without. Being able to easily partially furl or reef the sail if conditions deteriorate is a huge benefit and it the weather really goes bad, I can roll it up in seconds without unrigging the main sheet or getting my butt wet.

You can make your own for just a few dollars ... I used these instructions: http://dizzybigfish.co.uk/hobie-revolut ... tallation/ or just purchase the furler from Hobie.

It's not required, but it is definitely worth it IMO.

_________________
2014 Outback
2016 Outfitter
2017 Sport


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 10:51 pm 
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Thank you Pollo, really helpful reply.

Dave


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 4:38 am 
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I've always used the simple PVC curling device for around $4. Works like a charm every time. Probably have well over 100 sails and multiple hobies used with it.


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:04 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 2987
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Long time Hobie kayak sailer here. We’ve been using Hobie kayak sails on all our hobies since 2007, (we have owned about 8 hobies). We purchased the sail kits along with all the boats, (at a discount). We also purchased the large sailing rudder with each boat and turbo fins for each boat.
We travel a lot and have around 1/4million road miles with our camper in tow and hobies on the roof. We never launched any kayak, (we had many different models), without a sail kit strapped to the side of the boat, (on the bungy where the paddle normally fits), not even once, (lol just in case we found wind).

Down here in Florida there a lot of mangoves and shallow areas, we sawed around 5” off the bottom of all the sailing rudders, (the boat steers just fine whether sailing or not with the shorter rudder), and you can go in much shallower water, (but you need to learn how to shallow pedal, (ie... fins working like butterfly wings).

The pvc furler shown in your link is not quite right. You only need around 6” of 1 1/2” pvc, we used just standard pvc caps, (don’t glue them on), with a 7/8” dia hole drilled in the center, (we used a speed bit). You need to drill two additional 1/4” dia holes in the furler, one off center in the top cap, and the other in the center of the 6” pvc.
We just use 3/16” dia paracord for the furler line. I think we used around 4-5 ft of paracord, we tied a knot in one end, then feed the cord thru the offset hole in the cap, the up thru the brass eyelet in the sail, then back thru the offset hole, add a small knot just inside the cap. Now run the end of the rope thru the side hole in the pvc pipe. Assemble the pvc tube to the top cap, (the top cap is already on the mast), the assemble the bottom cap to the bottom of the tube, (you don’t need any glue), Your done.
You no longer need the big black bungy, on ours we just wrapped the bungy around the mast just above the top cap and taped in place with electrical tape, (so it’s out of the way), we also just nipped the bungy off on a few sails, (but that’s your choice).
If you pump clear silicone caulk around the joints where the mast goes thru, and the rope entry points, this turns the furler into a float, so if you ever capsize, the sail kit floats. Keep in mind the sail control line normally remains attached to the sail when kayak sailing, so in the event of a capsize while kayak sailing, the likelyhood of loosing the sail is very slim as long as you have a knot at the very end of your sail control line, ( that knot prevent the sail control line from spinning thru the pully’s, it’s called “the last resort”).
We tied a small length of rope to the sail control eyelett so when the sail is furled, we can tie it shut, (when the sail is removed, the knot keeps it furled tight, so you can strap the sail to the side of the boat. The furler line is just wrapped around the furler, we just tie a slip knot on the end of the furled line so it doesn’t come un-done when not using it.
On all our kayaks we leave the sail control lines and pulley on the boat full time, (never removed).
If we happen on some wind and want to use the sail we grab the sail, unfurl the furler line, (leaving a couple turns remaining around the pvc drum, grab the sail, untie the small rope (the one that keeps the sail furled), then clip on the sail control line, (hold the sail so it doesn’t unfurl). We then just slip the sail into the hole, while holding the sail furled with one hand, (prevent it from spinning), pull the sail control line tight and cleat it, the grab the loose furling line, pull it tight. Holding onto the furling line prevents the sail from un-furling. All of our hobies have the round hatch right in front of our seat. We just pull the furling line tight, run it between the mirage pedals, lift the T handle on the round hatch, wrap the 3/16 paracord furling line around the T handle, then push the T handle down into it’s pocket. The furling line is now pinched in the round hatch and won’t come out or slip.
Now when you want to unfurl you just raise the t handle, pull on sail control line and the sail will unfurl. I typically hold the furling line in one hand, (always keeping tension on the furling line), then unfurl the sail as much as you need, (hint in higher winds it’s best not to unfurl the sail all the way, leave it partially furled in a few turns). Once you have the sail unfurled where you want it, simply wrap it around the T handle on the round hatch, and push the t handle down into it’s slot. The furling line remains out of the way running between the mirage pedals.
Once you get the hang of this routine it only takes a minute or so to get the sail out and start sailing. You have complete control over the sailing rig, and can furl/ unfurl, and partially furl pretty much at will all you want reliably. Actually if we plan on sailing, we set the mast and furler up on shore before going out. We then go out with the sail furled, if we find wind and want to use it we simply unfurl the sail as needed. If we don’t need the sail we just leave it in and furled up. The furled sail installed doesn’t seem to drag the boat down speedwise hardly at all. When in the ocean, (with no low bridges and such), we often just kayak with the sail in and rigged but furled up.
We never bothered with the Hobie pontoon things, (we call them training wheels), once you get handy with the reliable furling system you can adjust the amount of sail you need out to suit the conditions, (sailing with the sail partially furled), you will find you no longer need the pontoons, of course your still going to flip and capsize once in a while, that’s pretty inevitable with kayak sailing, (in my experience it’s similar to sailing a laser or sunfish, both tend to flip easily with novice sailers).
Make sure you practice capsize recovery, to make sure you can get back into the kayak easily, and of course lash everything to the boat, (ie... mirage drives, paddles, and any gear), and of course when sailing always wear a pfd.
We love kayak sailing, which is our favoride past time, it’s actually kind of funny, Every single Hobie Mirage kayak made is designed from the ground up as a fully equipped and very capable sailing machine, 90% of the Hobie owners, don’t even know it, (lol).
Hope this helps
FE
Edit: Most my experience pre-dates the Hobie furling system that was released I think around 2013 time frame. I never looked at it closely, and have no knowledge as to how well it works, (the pvc furlers only cost about $3-$4 bucks in materials , all from home depot, and only take an hour or so to build, lol I swear we must have about a dozen of them floating around the garage, ( lol, they last forever). I’m not knocking Hobies furler or anything, I just have no knowledge of it.

Edit again: sorry I keep seeing things I forgot to add.... The turbo fins are pretty important for kayak sailing, with the fins pointed straight down, they work as a daggerboard, (you need a daggerboard for upwind sailing). I believe Hobie now offers bigger turbo fins even on the new mirage 180 drives, (definately worth getting especially when kayak sailing). Just keep in mind with turbo fins your not in a race, you can pedal the turbo fins slower using less energy and still maintain the same speeds vs just regular fins. We can pedal much further using turbo fins without getting as tired as we would with standard peddles, just peddle lightly and let the boat do the work when using turbo fins.


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 8:27 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:38 pm
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Like FE we never hit the water without sail kits (on Oasis and Outfitter) and use them almost every trip. I originally purchased the Hobie furling kits but found the cords can slip on the mast spool, the required effort is high, and the cord dimensions aren't quite long enough as installed (you can't quite fully open or close the sail if it is pulled in tight against the shaft). We played with different cord types and lengths, component positions, tensioning methods, added pulley blocks, etc. to solve these issues. Installation on some kayaks (like the two passenger kayaks we have) is a bit of pain especially if you hate well nuts and want everything thrubolted with a backing plate.

Whether using the Hobie furling kit, one of the forum DIY solutions, or your own custom solution, be sure to have your kayak configured as you would use it in the water before starting (sail and lines, drives, paddles, electronics, fishing gear...). These forums are full of oopsies on furler installs (and I could add more of my own). Also consider carefully the side you want the furler control. I prefer the furler line on the left and the mainsheet on the right so i needed to mount the furling bits further out to clear the rudder control which then might interfere with paddle storage if you aren't careful. This also likely resulted in the furling lines being a bit to short.

As you lay the furling bits on to assess position, maybe with tape temporarily, check and make sure the furling bits will not interfere with anything like sail mainsheet, peddle travel, seats and passengers, paddle storage, rudder controls, electronics, etc. If you don't feel up to all this, check with your dealer for a professional install. It may be easier with single seat kayaks but for my Oasis and Outfitter there was much to consider.

Once properly set up, the furlers are quite easy to use and quick to deploy and retrieve sail, just a few seconds. As FE says, on furling you will want to keep some tension on the mainsheet to pull the sail in tight so best done pointed into the wind. When unfurling, make sure you know the status of the mainsheet or you may be in for some excitement. When furled for long periods on the water, such as when heading straight into the wind, I wrap a strip of double-sided velcro around the furled sail and lower the mainsheet along the side so it stops hitting me in the head.

[EDIT]
Meant to address this:
>>> extra time setting [furler] up to get on the water
The added time for hooking up the furler when putting the sail on and routing the mainsheet is minimal since the furler gear is one single connected piece. Just lay the line around the mast receiver, drop the mast in, clip the end of the furler rigging bungee to the attachment point on the back side of the kayak, route the lines through the turn guides (or open pulleys in my case), and pull the line up onto the mast spool. I don't even think about it anymore since it is just a few steps added to sail rigging. I store the furler line and bungie in the sail bag with the sail. The newer sail kits have a sail bag that can hold the mast folded or full length (used to only hold the folded mast and folded sail) so my masts and sails are never folded or separated. In fact, the internal bungee has been removed the masts and they are riveted as a single piece now. This cuts sail rigging and derigging time since the complete mast and furled sail remain together in the bag ready for install.

Peter


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 11:33 am 
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Joined: Thu May 03, 2018 12:17 pm
Posts: 7
Thank you for your replies,

I have just ordered a ptfe washer to fit inside the mast step, I used to use them on my Laser dinghy to prevent hull wear and reduce friction. I will let you know how it works out. I went for a washer instead of a disc because I think the sand will work its way to the centre, out of the way.


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