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Another Tiger spin question
http://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=58032		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Fa1321tx [ Sun Jun 19, 2016 5:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Another Tiger spin question
Hello Everyone,

I have an old 2000 Tiger with a midpole snuffer system (nacra style) and the original yellow kite. I just bought a newer 2011 spinnaker and need some tips on relocating the spin blocks. Also I could use some advice on how to rig the spin sheets to attach to the spinnaker, the last owner used metal clips that are beating the up the plastic ring when dousing the spinnaker.
Author:  ToddE [ Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Tiger spin question
Is there a reason you don't just use a bowline for the sheets?

Todd
Author:  Fa1321tx [ Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Tiger spin question
Quote:
Is there a reason you don't just use a bowline for the sheets?


I don't think both ends of the sheets would fit through the grommet in the sail.
Author:  Johan !! [ Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Tiger spin question
You don't tie the ends on your spi, you need to splice a little 5 mm dyneema line in the middle of your spi sheet
And tie that 5 mm line on to the grommet of the spi.

look at the 2:00 minute mark in my video.

https://youtu.be/i_Y-Ctd2Vg4
Author:  MBounds [ Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Tiger spin question
You don't want knots that will hang up on the forestay in a gybe.

I had a continuous spin sheet and used a cow hitch (luggage tag knot) to tie the center of the sheet to the clew of the spinny. The ends of the sheet were run through their respective turning blocks and then joined together with pieces of 3 mm Amsteel that had been stitched into the ends so the juncture could run through the small tensioning block in the rear of the trampoline.

The clew of the sail gets pretty close to the first turning block, so there's not much advantage to having an Amsteel leader on the clew - especially since the splice is under full tension from the sail.
Author:  Fa1321tx [ Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Tiger spin question
MBounds wrote:
You don't want knots that will hang up on the forestay in a gybe.

I had a continuous spin sheet and used a cow hitch (luggage tag knot) to tie the center of the sheet to the clew of the spinny. The ends of the sheet were run through their respective turning blocks and then joined together with pieces of 3 mm Amsteel that had been stitched into the ends so the juncture could run through the small tensioning block in the rear of the trampoline.

The clew of the sail gets pretty close to the first turning block, so there's not much advantage to having an Amsteel leader on the clew - especially since the splice is under full tension from the sail.


Any place I can find instructions with pictures on this set up? Im knot :lol: very familiar with tweaking sheets is there a place I could order it ready to install?
Author:  MBounds [ Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Tiger spin question
I found some photos, but they're not very clear.

My memory's getting bad, too - turns out I did have a leader on my spin sheet. It was just a 2' long piece of 3 mm Amsteel with eye splices on each end. One end was "luggage tagged" on to the clew; the other was tagged onto the sheet and held in place with stitching.

None of this stuff is ready to buy off the shelf - you need to learn how to splice (it's not hard).
Author:  Fa1321tx [ Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Tiger spin question
MBounds wrote:
None of this stuff is ready to buy off the shelf - you need to learn how to splice (it's not hard).


The learning never stops :?
Author:  tpdavis473 [ Thu Jun 23, 2016 7:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Tiger spin question
If you stop learning, it stops being fun, doesn't it?

There are lots of different splicing tools. Look through videos showing the splices you want to do (most will probably be brummel splices, though) and choose a splicing tool and diameter that suits you for what you will be doing. You can do a brummel splice with just a small pick and a zip tie, but burying the tail is harder. http://www.animatedknots.com/brummel/#ScrollPoint
Author:  Rcnesneg [ Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Tiger spin question
So that's what I've been doing wrong? I've got the continuous sheet with both ends tied in a bowline onto the clew. I don't like the weight up there and it hangs up on the forestay. The worst, though, is that the sheets sometimes go down in between the two sides of the forestay chainplate and get jammed in there. How do you remove the spinnaker sheet to trailer the boat if the amsteel is spliced into both ends-it's a loop and you can't take it off the sail, and can't take it off the boat?
Author:  Fa1321tx [ Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Tiger spin question
tpdavis473 wrote:
If you stop learning, it stops being fun, doesn't it?

There are lots of different splicing tools. Look through videos showing the splices you want to do (most will probably be brummel splices, though) and choose a splicing tool and diameter that suits you for what you will be doing. You can do a brummel splice with just a small pick and a zip tie, but burying the tail is harder. http://www.animatedknots.com/brummel/#ScrollPoint


The next question is can I splice Samson Ultra lite line?
Author:  tpdavis473 [ Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Tiger spin question
Go to apsltd.com and look at the line. They tell you whether or not it is splice able. You can even get them to splice it for you if you like.
Author:  Fa1321tx [ Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Tiger spin question
Looks like the larger size is spliceable so I lucked out on that. If someone could post some photos or links on how I need to splice it for my spinnaker that would be great.

Product Code:441

FIBER (CORE/COVER):Dyneema® - MFP Blend / MFP

Specific Gravity:0.94

Splice:Non spliceable

Color Options:

Ultra-Lite has low stretch, excellent strength, and it floats. Sizes 3/16" (5 mm) and 1/4" (6 mm) are not spliceable. Sizes 5/16” (8 mm) and 3/8” (9 mm) are spliceable.
Author:  tpdavis473 [ Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Tiger spin question
That animated knot site shows most splices. I don't know why you would want to splice a covered line for this application. What I've used is simple brummel splice at each end of a small (18 inch or so) piece of uncovered dyneema. If you don't want to do this yourself, though, give apsltd a call and ask them for a single line spin bridle or a double line spin bridle. The difference is a double line gives you a smooth Y for the line to move against the forestay. The single line bridle will do the same thing if you luggage tag the sheets to the open end of the bridle.

Lots of issues can happen with gybing an asymspin. But like everything else with sailing, you find what works for you.

If you gybe with the clew flying in front of the forestay in the gap (gybe inside), you can get hung up if your knots aren't smooth or if you are tying to the grommet in the spin. A fix for that is to simply luggage tag the whole sheet in the middle and leave the two ends free--or simply tie them together (but the knots often come undone). The knots are catching in the gybe because of the tiny 'hook' created by the knot and the little bit of stiff fabric between the grommet and the actual corner of the spin. You can do what MBounds suggests and stitch the two ends together for a continuous loop. I've not done that but I don't sail a tiger so don't know why it may be necessary.

I began to prefer to gybe "outside" where the lines are routed around the spin so the clew flies out in front of the boat before being dragged back--it had the advantage of keeping you moving a little longer although the gybes themselves might have been a little slower. I was sailing a lot of single handed races and felt it was better for me to control the boat and the sail together. Drawbacks include a very very long sheet. Also, The thing that can happen that is truly bad with this technique, though, is that the outboard sheet "can" get under the pole in which case you are in a world of hurt. I always had a little extra pole in front to catch the sheet if it fell, but you may not have that luxury.
Author:  samcc99us [ Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Tiger spin question
No one outside gybes on a F18. The gap between the forestay and spin pole end is plenty long. Outside gybes are very slow (i.e a distance racing technique) and not efficient in a wire to wire gybe situation.

With my F18 spin sheets, I just tie a figure eight into the clew of the sail at the middle of the spinsheet, then on the tramp, a double fishermans bend to tie the sheet ends together: http://www.animatedknots.com/doublefish ... crollPoint

A luggage tag or similar knot on the clew of the sail becomes very painful to remove after a few hours of sailing. There are fancier ways than knots, but I use them elsewhere in the system (check the team microwind website for more details). Spinsheet and mainsheet I keep bone simple, these are critical release systems that need to work reliably.

As for hanging up on the forestay, the secret is to tape the entire adjuster closed and you can also run a bungee or line from the top of the adjuster forward along the pole. I've found the tape method is simple. You are taping your pins anyway, right?
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