B Fleet North American Championship

1999 was The Carlton Tucker memorial event.
There were close to 100 boats.
They split us into 4 groups with top seeds.
After the round robbin races they split the fleet to gold and silver so that all the top guys could sail head to head. This only happens when there are too many boats for one start.

I believe what we have been doing is working. I am in support of the daily limits.
I recall getting ready to go to the 93 Nationals after a few years of reading about guys like Carlton, Wally and Jeff Alter.
They were all pretty much sailing gods to us small pond sailors.
Guess what, they were regular guys that were more than happy to help anyone and answer any questions you may have.
Getting new people to the Nationals and having them mingle in the social scene will help their performance on the water as much as the sailing.

I'll bet there are still a lot of sailors out there that don't go to Nationals and read about the top guys in the Hotline even now and wonder what they're all about.
Many of the top twenty have partied, slept over or maybe even had to take a nap at my house(rum squall).

If we can get the new people to the events, and maybe have a buddy system to help and encourage them, we can get them hooked.

Still fishing
Pat

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Pat Bisesi
Fleet 204 Syracuse, NY

I must not have the same ideas as everyone else as to the poll question.

My suggestion would be combined starts with a separation into Gold (A) and Silver (B) fleets after a midweek cutoff. Previously with the large number of boats competing at Nationals, there would be different starts for groups of boats with a combining into the different fleets after the cutoff.
I would not agree with a B fleet unless there were at least 50 boats.

I vote YES! I loved the days we had A, B, C and Novice. More people get to enjoy the fun of winning a trophy! Besides... it has been so long since I last raced, I might have to go to B fleet!

I say... same event and same time.

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Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Forums are something I do very litte, but occassionally something gets me on it.

As many of you know, the '09 HAVAMEGA North Americans was approved by the Board Of Directors during the AGM at the H16 NAC in Clear Lake, Iowa. The '09 mega event is to be NAC for H16, H17, H18, H20 and Tigers. This was done knowing that there is a very strong bid for an H16 Worlds in '09 that could occur in late September and the first few days of October. The HAVAMEGA bid made a concession at the AGM that if the Worlds bid from Italy does come to fruition, then another H16 NAC may be bid, subject to BOD vote, and if approved would remove the "NAC" label from the H16's in HAVAMEGA. As Race Chairman for the HAVAMEGA event, I am currently on hold to provide the class with a NOR until this issue is resolved. Of course, I don't like the wait, or the suspense.

Since that time, the class has been vigorously discussing several issues, but the one that sticks out is this H16 NAC 'B' dialogue.

Firstly, I might mention that my opinion of the AGM in Clear Lake is that because we had 2 competing bids for H16 NAC, as well as an ad-hoc proposal for a 3rd, the meeting took on a character which I was uncomfortable with. I felt there were some 'out of order' points made, but this is only a matter of my personal opinion.

Now, in retrospect, I can only say that had we all had in our minds this concept of an H16 NAC 'B' event, then I believe the situation would have been different during the AGM. In point of fact, when reading the first notes about this concept, I immediately felt that the HAVAMEGA would be the perfect place to do it. I am comfortable saying that if we had this concept on the table at the AGM, then I'd have jumped on it, and we'd all now have NOR's on the HCA website about two great NAC events for the
'09 season.

Perhaps it is not too late. What would be wrong in revisiting this very vote that was made on the two bids at the AGM, and looking now at two bids that collaborate, instead of compete. Obviously, I believe strongly that the class desparately needs an event like HAVAMEGA for a plethora of reasons. I also concede that the upper echelon of H16 racers need a qualifyer prior to Worlds, whether the Italy bid comes about or not. The Kingston, Ontario H16 bid should be revisited, and as well the concept of converting the H16 portion of the HAVAMEGA event to an H16 NAC 'B'. I believe that it would be reasonable to simplify this and make the two concepts one vote and put it to rest, so we can get under way with our plans.

As an aside, the only thing I see that really should be incorporated into the NAC 'B' designation is that (1) the event awards full points like any other HCA sancitoned event, and (2) any sailor who has trophied, say in the last 5 H16 NAC's, would be ineligible for a trophy.

Thank you for indulging the epistle, Gordo

1999 - Carlton Tucker Memorial Hobie 16 Continentals (he passed away in May of 1998). Ft. Walton Beach, FL.

96 entries, divided into 4 groups - A, B, C, D. Top sailors were "seeded" across all groups so they didn't all race against each other all the time.

There were two starts per race:
First Race - AB; CD
Second Race - AC, BD
Third Race - AD, BC
etc.

After 3 days of racing, the top 50 went to the gold fleet, bottom 46 went to silver. Still two starts per race. Gold first, then silver. Gold kept their scores from the first three days; silver started with a clean slate.

The first three days were very light air and they only got 4 races in. That was the biggest complaint - that 4 races was too few to make a cut.

In 1993 (the year that Fleet 204 took over the LeSabre Hotel in Wildwood), the competition was extreme - Jeff Alter, Carlton Tucker, etc., etc. I think the same rotation scheme was used as in 1999, but I don't remember the details of the gold / silver fleet. Many brain cells gave their lives to the parties that year.

Gordo, You must be a gluten for punishment running a Mega.
I applaud everyone's efforts to try and make things better.
I have been a advocate for the "B" fleet guys for a long time.

Your guideline for entry into the B fleet event means that more than 50%(maybe even 70%) of the guys that have sailed in past Nationals will be eligible.
As a side note you have got to say top 15 or whatever because I gave everyone that attended the Nationals in Syracuse a trophy.

What is going to happen no matter how you do it is there will be people there that are much better than some of the new people you're trying to attract.This will cause many to complain that some don't belong there.
This in my opinion is going to setup for a further divide. It won't be long before there will be someone looking for a C fleet Nationals.
Offering the same points for a "B" fleet(I don't even like saying it) Nationals as the A or gold fleet will also cause problems with the top guys shooting for Worlds spots.(If the point system is used in any way)

I won't even get into the financial issues this could cause.
(You will find out that money will be your biggest challenge at the Mega.)

Please don't take any of this as negative.
There are many pitfalls as you will also find out running a big event.
I have fallen face down in a few of those and had to scramble to recover.

There must be some lurkers out there that understand some of my concerns. It would be nice to hear from you.
If I am clueless then let me know that to.

By the way, I am probably eligible for a B fleet Nationals as described and might do OK.
Just a minute, I might be changing my mind.

_________________
Pat Bisesi
Fleet 204 Syracuse, NY

Ya that soda machine at the LeSabre was never that same after MMiller's visit.

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Pat Bisesi
Fleet 204 Syracuse, NY

Whether this is a hairbrained scheme, or a stroke of collective genius, it appears to have a lot of interest amongst those who are paying attention. There are absolutely going to be those who find something wrong with this, if we go ahead with it. That is the human condition. I'm certainly not afraid of this, and we'll learn and improve what we can, but if attendance is improved and people have a great time, then we'll have hit a homer and everyone will be well served.

We need the top sailors there. I'll never forget seeing all those great sailors finishing out on the horizon at Ventura, my first NAC. It what drives us. I'm certain there will be many great one on one clinics at the beach as well. I did mean top 15 last 5 years, and only one step further could be anyone who finished top 5 in an individual NAC race past 5 years, excluding Ventura round robin. That, of course, would make me trophy ineligible, and would be fine. However, full points would be necessary, as this is a legitimate HCA sanctioned regatta, and the B status differs substantially from ordinary B fleet in Division events. Most racing will be legitimate A fleeters and also full points will motivate attendance by those who value ranking.

As for the financial side of this, well, suffice to say that the bid was lean on attendance, fat on expenses with no real sponsor money written in, and still cleared a profit. If attendance is greater, then that would be gravy, and as well when you see the local business support, which was not penciled in the budget, you'll be blown away. They really want to show us a good time.

Regarding who may sail in a B Fleet Championship

Does it make sense to use the (pretty much) standard Divisional advancement criteria?

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Sheet In...Max Out
www.fleet297.org
sailflatlands at gmail dot com

As an aside, actually most H16 sailors that race will be A fleeters and much of those will have already done many NAC's. This category is primarily for them. Newbies will be at the far bottom, and sailors ineligible for trophies will get their points, which if I'm right, will force many top sailors to attend, not affecting the 'Worlds qualifying' in a major way. If you are a top 5 ranked sailor, I would go to this race by hook or by crook. Points aren't really what many think. It's about fun and points motivate attendance. Most of the rank and file don't give a hoot about worlds qualifying, and if they go, enjoy the pre-qualifying heats just fine. But a few at the top need to be catered to, hence, the proposal to have the two events in this new, revolutionary format should be revisited.

If you have this event near the west coast...or at least help with travel expenses I'll bring our power boat and the RC equipment to help out.

Let me tell you all this: This topic is getting kinda hot (judging by the number of private emails I have been getting) and lets cool down just a bit until we figure out what we're doing next.
Everyone go back to your wives and children and carry on like nothing has happened. Act natural.

All IS WELL.... REMAIN CALM !!

_________________
Pat Bisesi
Fleet 204 Syracuse, NY

Thanks Chris, you're always so optimistic



Bob, tell us what you really thought

_________________
Sheet In...Max Out
www.fleet297.org
sailflatlands at gmail dot com

The idea from my perspective is that this could be a way to encourage more sailors to come to North Americans. But turning this into a separate event kind of defeats that purpose. And without a clearly defined definition of what B fleet is you would just be creating two competing events which would be terrible for the class.
If you can manage to have an optional B fleet at the same time as the Open North Americans then you may end up with a bigger regatta. B fleeter will also self select. I don't think you will loose more than about 5 boats from the A fleet( going down to B) but you may gain about 15 overall. In my view you would want separate starts but that is always dependent on resources. I think the B fleeters (probably a smaller fleet) would appreciate a nice big line with lots of room.
The motivation is just that I get really bummed out when people don't go to NA's because they don't think they are good enough. I think that's just crazy. We want EVERYONE there, at least I do. If a B fleet makes that happen then great if not maybe we should try something else.

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http://hobiebob.blogspot.com/