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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:22 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:20 pm
Posts: 45
Location: Galveston, Texas
Asked this elsewhere, but perhaps Matt and company has advice.

Have a Hobie 21 SE - has the ubiquitous hook at the top of the comptip. The halyard's only purpose is to get the sail onto and off of that hook. I don't plan on reefing my sail, since that's a pain on this boat and, I just don't need to.

Have problems getting the sail up that last 2 feet. It MUST be dry lubed (and the mast slot) before every raising of the sail. If not, it's virtually impossible. Slot is free and clear. With lube it does "OK". The worst part is I have a fairly cheap double braid/polyester line (1/4" - 6mm) that stretches horribly. I'm upgrading and thought that I could oopen up more space in the slot and reduce friction by gooing to a high tech line and smaller diameter.

Can I go as low as 4 mm (5/32), if dyneema cored, with poly cover? It has breaking strength of like 1,300 pounds. I don't think I could pull more than half that...

Ideas?

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H21SE- 408


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:27 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 5:22 am
Posts: 624
Location: Columbus, Indiana
Sometimes while raising my main sail, it seems to jam near the top....

What happens, is that the halyard line goes through a small block at the base of the mast.

That block can "drop" just enough so that once you pull the line again, the line gets caught in the track at the entry slot and pinches in that slot down by your feet.....

Just push it back inside the slot with your thumb and check that slot all the way up to the boom.

Now you are back in business. :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
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Location: Oceanside, California
mmiller wrote:
Raising the mainsail of a Hobie can be more difficult than need be.

Several factors can cause the mainsail to be difficult to hoist:


Dirty luff ropes and luff tracks. These can be cleaned with soapy water and a scrub brush. If you want to use a lubricant, keep away from oils and waxes that can attract dirt. Use a dry silicone spray. Most all Hobie sails now have a Teflon threaded bolt (luff) rope to ease the hoisting effort.

Battens and sail shape. The battens stiffen the airfoil shape of your sail. Over tensioning of the battens can cause a couple of problems. Luff protector caps can be forced against the mast and cause drag when hoisting. The battens also force the sail shape into a curve. The luff curve (seen when laying the sail out on the ground, as a large arch) is typical to Hobie Cat main sails. The sails "airfoil" shape is mostly created by the miss-matched mast bend and luff curve of the sail. The luff curve is more than the likely mast bend and when the mast is straight (while hoisting) the difference is dramatic. This luff curve going up the straight mast can cause significant drag and hoisting problems when done incorrectly.

Outhaul. Be sure the outhaul is fully released before hoisting.

Hoist Technique:

Keep the batten tension to a minimum. Hoist the sail slowly, while feeding into the mast opening. When the sail gets about 3/4's of the way up, begin aggressively feeding at the bottom opening and reduce the amount of halyard effort. If the halyard is pulled tight when the sail is not being fed into and up the track, you will have problems. The sail luff will pull taunt and the curve shape will bind in the (straight) mast track. Lower the sail slightly and begin feeding again.

The best way to feed the sail is to stand in front of the mast and reach around either side to "sandwich" the sail between two hands (above the feeder opening) and push the sail up the track. Pull with the halyard, only the slack created, then feed again. If the sail binds, lower slightly and begin feeding again. This technique can be done by one person, but is certainly easier with two working together. It is VERY important that the person on the halyard only pulls the slack up the mast and does not get ahead of the feeder.

Locking the Hobie 14/16/Getaway halyard:

Once the sail is fully hoisted (be sure that the sail is fully inserted into the feeder). Pull the halyard forward of the mast by 3-4 feet. Hold the halyard on the centerline of the mast. Pull hard and hold the tension while bringing the halyard into the mast. Release the halyard tension and see that the sail remains fully hoisted. This seats a small bead, in the halyard, under a two finger prong "hook" and the top of the mast. If the sail slips down when downhaul tension is added, repeat the final hoist technique again. Be sure the bead is clear to pass the hook before pulling tension on the halyard.

Image

To release... fully release the downhaul and outhaul. Partially feed the sail up the luff track. Hoist with the halyard to the top till it stops, hold... pull the halyard line forward 3-4 feet away from the mast, ease the halyard to lower the sail.

Locking the Hobie 17/18/20/21 Halyard:

It is best to simulate the halyard locking with the mast down so you clearly understand the system.

Then, depending on how old the boat is, be sure the hook does not have the old "flopper" stainless piece hanging on the hook. This old device caused difficulty in raising and hooking but would make it easier to release and lower.

Also, be sure that the knot tied to the ring is very low profile. A long bowline knot will hit the mast head before the ring gets to the hook.

If the ring has a small loop at the top... The line should be passed through the loop and a small knot tied. The knot (when ring and shackle are affixed to the sail) should be facing the mast. This tilts the ring closer to the mast.

Image

Then (before attaching halyard shackle to the sail) spin the halyard 3 or 4 times clockwise (looking down on the shackle). This "pre-loads" the halyard line and causes the ring to swing back towards the hook. Keep the boat into the wind and hoist. Should lock easily.

To release... fully release the downhaul and outhaul. Partially feed the sail up the luff track. Hoist with the halyard to the top till it stops, hold... rotate the aft of the mast base to starboard, hold the mast rotated, ease the halyard a few feet before releasing the mast. Lower the sail.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:11 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:32 am
Posts: 387
Location: Lake Gaston, NC
If you are using a feeder, it sounds to me like the bolt rope is jambing in the feeder. The luff of the sail has a curve, and as the sail gets towards the top of the mast, the foot want to go towards the back of the boat.

I still use feeders, and always will. The sail only jambs in the feeder when the slot is too wide. They almost all came from the factory too wide. I used large Channelocks to squeeze the jaws together until you can barely start the sail into the feeder.

On the 21, on other Hobies that use the ring, I like the stock ring, and shackle. I tie the ring with a single half hitch, secured by a single overhand end knot. The end knot goes on the side of the mast away from the hook. Before hooking the halyard to the sail, let it hang free until it doesn't spin on it's own. Put two twists in it that automatically wants to rotate the ring towards the side of the mast with the hook.

On the 21, I start the sail in the feeder, and holding the halyard behind the rear crossbar, I just walk back with the halyard, and look up to see when it flips the flipper up, and then it goes in the hook. If the battens don't need tightening for the conditions, I don't even bother to unroll the sail. It will unroll as it goes up, on any of the Hobies.

I like the flipper too, because it let's me raise, and lower the sail easily while on the boat out on the water, if I want to. Pull the halyard and the sail comes down.

People forgot how to use the feeder. They had a reputation for ripping the luff rope cover, but that was from meathooks in the slots of the screws holding the feeder to the mast, from original assembly. I had to change out those screws on probably half the new boats I assembled, which was not a small number.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:38 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:20 pm
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Location: Galveston, Texas
Sail raising procedure update for others as dense as I (had to re-learn AGAIN last weekend):

If you have an Aussie halyard ring, make sure that when the knot faces to mast when the more-open part of the ring is to starboard. This way, the open part of the ring will match up with the hook on top of the mast.
Before starting, spray bolt rope and mast slot with compatible dry lube.
Make sure luff track is clean and free of burrs
Make sure you're pointed into the wind. If raising sail on trailer, boat must be attached to trailer. Raise jib first and furl it.

Let halyard unwind, then twist it clockwise, when looking from above.
Attach to sail, again being sure the knot faces the mast, tilting the top of ring towards the mast.
Make sure out haul is slack.
Feed the sail into luff track while pulling slack out with halyard.
At top, ring should be set right. Pull on mast rotator bar, rotating the mast clockwise, when looking from above.
Let go of halyard and then pull down on down haul.
Repeat pulling halyard, releasing and pulling down, if necessary. Done right it should work first time, however...
When you get it to catch, hold and set down haul and then immediately set out haul.

The out haul being loose or tight eases up or pulls on the ring. When setting the ring, you want to get it up to the top, let it loose so it falls onto the hook. Because the rope has a twist on it, it makes the ring fall at an angle onto the hook, which is now turned into the ring. Twisting the mast more beyond a few degrees doesn't help. If it doesn't catch pretty quick, drop sail and reexamine your setup. Its easy to miss a detail.
I also use a handle with a carabiner to tug on the halyard, to be easy on my tender hands...just easier to hoist that big sail.

In the end, the above worked very well for us.

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H21SE- 408


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:19 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:20 pm
Posts: 152
Location: South Boardman, Mi
A note on small diameter halyards, they suck.

For years I used a 2.5 mm dyneema haylard on my H18. To grip it I attached a jam cleat to a piece of wood. Because the line was so skinny it would try to slip past the bolt rope and squeeze out of the mast track. This always happened to a slight degree, where the line would slightly wedge itself between the bolt rope and the side of the track, increasing friction. About every 4th raise it would squeeze past the bolt rope all the way, at which point the sail became nearly impossible to raise.

Old frayed halyards create a lot of friction. Simply replacing an old halyard with a new, smooth one of the right diameter goes a long way. On my 21SC (mine uses a modified H18 mast) I use 6MM (1/4") Endura Braid Euro Style, chosen for low stretch.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:48 am 
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Location: Galveston, Texas
Yeah - I agree- eventually decided to not use a smaller halyard and stuck with the original 1/4 inch. It'll get replaced with a lower stretch, something-not-too-expensive once it needs to be.

Once I got my technique down, this has become a non-issue. Since the SE doesn't use the halyard for anything other than hoisting the sail, low stretch and diameter appear to not be an issue other than being easier on the hands when using a standard size.

I'll use the line I got a great deal on to replace dagger board lines, down-haul and elsewhere.

Hobie makes a tool (Easy Rigg, I think) as is there a "Camcleat Powergrip" out there that's a commercial solution, and cheap when needing extra purchase. My modified exercise "tool" seems to work pretty darned good, though.

"Modified H18 mast"????

Tell me what that's about, please. Guessing a loss of the original mast forced a ..."transition"?

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H21SE- 408


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:54 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:20 pm
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Location: South Boardman, Mi
Yup, original mast failed in the comp tip where it meets the aluminum. Replacement comp tips weren't available, and I wanted an all aluminum mast. A little searching revealed a H18 mast is about the right size. I extended the mast about 18" at the base, while also adapting it to fit the H21SC mast ball. A little cutting of the sail track to make room for the much higher mounted furling boom and it was almost good to go. As an added bonus, the 18 mast is light enough to step without a gin pole setup, greatly reducing the launching time of the boat.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/wum8CgyCPucXqPTM9

Full thread:
https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=61361


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