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 Post subject: Sail for a i11s
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:17 am 
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Has anyone tried to put a sail on the i11s or tried to use it for wind surfing? It seems like the natural progression for Hobie to put a sail on the i11s. I think it is the only "kayak" that Hobie has not provided that option.


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 Post subject: Re: Sail for a i11s
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 4:47 pm 
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melnoelhorn wrote:
It seems like the natural progression for Hobie to put a sail on the i11s. I think it is the only "kayak" that Hobie has not provided that option.

What's stopping ya from trying the existing Hobie inflatable sailkit? Looks like you have 4 perfect points to attach it's lines... bow forestay, aft mainsheet, and sideshrouds to the sidegrip handles. The only improvisation is where to step the mast which normally fits in a shallow plastic cup with a little tab to hook a sail downhaul bungee. Don't get the rigid sailkit which needs a deep structural mast cup.

You could buy or make a cup and glue it or tie it on. But it may work best just to jam the mast on the forward tab of the mirage drive. You could rig a line to grip things between the tab and metal tether loop. Not sure if the skinny mast would prevent your pedals from stroking, so you might also rig something between bungee eyes forward or whatever. Or else adjust the pedals to max rear position as if for short legs.

It would be really cool if the skeg could be installed to aid the mirage fins in resisting sideslip, in addition to the rudder. But unless you can install the mast far enough back, the skeg will probably unbalance you into lee helm. That is weathervaning downwind, while normally for safety a slight upwind weathervaning is preferred.

I don't have an i11s to look at, and for instance am not sure you have enough rigidity for the sideshrouds to resist the pull of the mast. On my i12s I can see the top of the sail exerts a fair bit of mechanical advantage against side shrouds which in turn drives the mast down harpoonlike into boat floor. Think about how messy a knockdown could be and how you would recover. Maybe it could and should void your warrantee, but the opportunity is yours for the taking!

See inflato sailkit install brochure http://static.hobiecat.com/item_attachm ... 1421009338

P.S. you might consider raking the mast to make things work better. For instance rake forward to clear your pedals. Or rake back to balance the skeg effect. Or even step the mast behind your seat with a boom and use the normal instead of turbo fins to balance the effect of skeg + large sailing rudder. You want the center of resistance roughly balanced between underwater vs above water stuff, or else fight weathervaning all the time.

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 Post subject: Re: Sail for a i11s
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:33 pm 
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I have a 1.4 square meter Kayak Sailor rig with genoa fitted to my i11s in "bow sprit" mode.
Mirage drive out, plug in. I haven't sailed it yet. http://www.kayaksailor.com.


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 Post subject: Re: Sail for a i11s
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 6:33 am 
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I have been looking at various options as well. The i11s compliments my AIs, thus must have a sail due to the sailing addiction... :)

The expensive option would be the Paddle type Sail- "Dasail" I think is the name. Looks interesting with the sail hidden away within the paddle.

I just made a "paddle" sail this week (no pictures yet) out of a windsurfer sail. Had two 3.0 size laying around. Took just a few minutes. Cut it down under one of the battens to an appropriate length and slid it over my paddle (one blade removed). The sail already had a "topper thingie" and loops to go around the paddle. Not ideal, since Ill be holding it with both hands (paddle in one, end of sail line in the other) - but should pose a fun time! I also have a Pacific Action sail that I dont use. I may try to rig that up once I have more time. I am thinking I would only need a strap around the hull to hold it in place.

Hope to test it out this week down in Outer banks NC. Ill try to take some pics during the test.


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 Post subject: Re: Sail for a i11s
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:40 pm 
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catskyer wrote:
Mirage drive out, plug in. I haven't sailed it yet.

You can also try it without their leeboards and with mirage drive in. With the pedals centered the straight down fins act like a daggerboard, but then you can pedal it for a quick bit of maneuverability or upwind hop whenever needed. Say you have to tack due to approaching shore, but some other boat is blocking the other side for a bit. Only mirage sailors can seamlessly switch back and forth between manual and sail power. Best to tether the drive in case of flipping over.

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 Post subject: Re: Sail for a i11s
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:04 pm 
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Sadly, the Mirage drive sticks up right under the boom. I'll have to settle for the paddle.


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 Post subject: Re: Sail for a i11s
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:58 am 
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Whatabout sailing by kite? There are purpose built small kayak kites, but how about kitesurfer kites? Is i11s too tippy for a strong sidepull? You can get efficient kites for water that are not blown up preinflated... I have some Flysurfer ones that are similar to ram-air paragliders but have special adaptations for water launch and landing. You could bag them on the deck and use when wanted. Maybe this model http://flysurfer.com/project/viron2/ and keep your pedals centered to make fins act as a keel.

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 Post subject: Re: Sail for a i11s
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:33 pm 
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A poor man's K2? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrkrepYd_uI


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 Post subject: Re: Sail for a i11s
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:05 pm 
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I guess with a serious surfkite a major danger is getting overpowered and getting lifted or dragged out of your seat. I don't think anchoring the kite to your craft helps, except possibly for the safety leash. Then as you are being lifted you could let go the bar and the kite would deflate, either to be relaunched or stowed. Probably better anchoring the leash to yourself as normal so you could catch up with a blowing away kayak:

Image

I also worry about the pedals being a tangle danger, or being lifted and dropped on them. Will take some more thought... might be other pitfalls. Of course use a small kite, and maybe make rope kneebraces like what whitewater kayakers use to stay in the boat... relax your legs and they can release. I may try it on my i12s on a downwind run with light steady winds.

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 Post subject: Re: Sail for a i11s
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:00 pm 
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I am going to try the small windpaddle from windpaddle.com. The particular one I intend to use is the Scout. See it at:
http://www.windpaddle.com/product/windp ... ayak-sail/


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 Post subject: Re: Sail for a i11s
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:14 am 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
I'm pretty impressed with the I11s, we have TI that we call the mothership (ie... The ultimate Tandem Island), where we tow other kayaks and such to remote islands, then everyone separates and does their thing, sometimes as many as 4 kayaks (we have a large family, and lots of friends lol). Our current range is around 60 miles/day, (yea we could maybe go a hundred (10mph x 10 hrs = 100 miles), but who wants to spend ten hrs on the water in a tiny boat (boring,,,lol)).
I was thinking about getting a SUP (or two) that I could lash to one of the tramps (seems like a cool idea), however I'm kinda old and operating a SUP standing up isn't in the cards for me.
We are also kayak sailers, actually we have never taken a Hobie mirage kayak out without a sail kit strapped to the side in the last ten yrs of kayaking, (not even once). Probably our favorite pastime is kayak sailing.
If I get an I11s I will likely take a white PE cutting and contour it to fit in the area of the tie downs (with a blow torch), drill openings where the tie down bungys stick up so it sits flat on the grey surface.
I will then make a mast cup that screws down to the cutting board just in front of the mirage drive. (basically a flat plate welded to the end of a piece of tubing that the 7/8" dia hobie kayak sail mast slips into).

It will look a little funny because the mast will be tilted back slightly to maintain a good center of effort.

The cutting board may be able to be lashed down with all the bungy tabs, alternately it wouldn't be too hard to double stick tape the cutting board to the top surface of the kayak, or a layer of silicone. All easily removable of course.

Then get a Hobie inflatable kayak sail, or build your own mast topper for all the guy lines with a standard Hobie kayak sail (not too difficult, all of our sail kits had this setup).

Tie a line to the stern (rear stay), and your probably good to go, side stays may be needed, but I doubt it, and you shouldn't need a front stay (you don't sail backwards lol).
I would build a PVC furler for the sail (pvc furlers are super cheap to make ($5 bucks), and take about 30 minutes to make). Every kayak we have ever had has the PVC furlers installed.

I would add a cleat to the cutting board for towing purposes.

We used to have the TI, an oasis and two revos, transporting all those huge kayaks was a monumental undertaking. We eventually sold off all the other rigid kayaks and replaced all of them with cheap inflatable paddle kayaks. Great for transportation, but everyone hates the darn things (think mutiny on the bounty (lol)), they don't mind being towed the 3-10 miles out to the islands, but once we anchor, everyone despises paddling around on the cheapo paddle yaks exploring (they are all used to the Hobies, and kayak sailing).

When not kayak sailing you just pull the mast out, furl it up, and stow it on the deck somewhere.

I'm seriously thinking about picking up a couple I11s's and rigging them with sail kits as described above, I think it might be a viable solution for us.

There are usually 3-4 of us, (sometimes 6) and as everyone knows you get that many people on a TI, it becomes not fun, (even with our massive sailsets and twin outboards).

The only remaining question is if I can tow these things ten miles with our TI at 10-12 miles per hr with someone sitting on them, (no problem with the regular Hobie rigid kayaks, our our inflatable 4 person dingy).

Obviously needs much more planning and thought, but this might be the first viable solution to our dilemma in a very long time. At the next local Hobie demo days event I'm definitely going to take out an I11s, and scope the whole thing out.

FE


Last edited by fusioneng on Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:22 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Sail for a i11s
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:15 am 
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johnmcneely wrote:
I am going to try the small windpaddle from windpaddle.com. The particular one I intend to use is the Scout. See it at:
http://www.windpaddle.com/product/windp ... ayak-sail/


I think that is a really good choice, I hope to see your observations after trying it...

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 Post subject: Re: Sail for a i11s
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:33 am 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Most of those aftermarket sail kits out there are downwind only sails, you can't sail upwind with them, and many have difficulty even on a broad reach.

The Hobie kayak sail system is a true sail, (turns any of the Hobie mirage kayaks into a true sailboat) where you can sail downwind, upwind, broad reach, or any thing you like just like a real sailboat. ( just FYI).

FE


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 Post subject: Re: Sail for a i11s
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:53 pm 
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fusioneng wrote:
I'm seriously thinking about picking up a couple I11s's and rigging them with sail kits as described above, I think it might be a viable solution for us.

I would also consider a pair of i9s or one of each. The i9s and i12s had to morph towards more board-like in order to jam the wide rigid seat between the side sponsons. Basically the flat floor got wider and the sponsons shrunk diameter. They are now almost boards with pointy ends and sail-ready. You could buy them hull-only and borrow both drives from the mother ship as needed

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 Post subject: Re: Sail for a i11s
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:44 am 
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Crazy brainstorm for experimenters: The seaEagle quicksail rig is meant for downwind, but comes awfully close to a crabclaw rig which is THE most efficient reaching rig https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_claw ... erformance . I have seen pictures of a Hobie 16 cat rigged that way. You would need another spar, but it's just an informal brace. Not like the mast of a sunfish, whose lanteen rig is sometimes confused with crabclaw. Pic of the crude downwind kit before mods:

Image

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