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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:21 pm 
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I bought a Hobie 1iis in 2017 brand new and have used it several times per year. I keep the kayak deflated and bagged after each use, stored in a temperature controlled environment away from sunlight and freezing temperatures. Last Summer when we went to the lake I tried to inflate the kayak with the hand pump and noticed that the center section wouldn't inflate. After some inspection, I found that the seam connecting the PVC fabric to the plastic drive well had delaminated in several spots. I was able to glue it back (after some serious effort) and it worked for the next lake trip, but this year the delamination is back (started to leak in the middle of the lake - ruining our trip again). My question is: This appears to be a design flaw, has anyone else experienced this delamination and if you did, how did you repair it?

When I say it is a design flaw, I mean, there should have been a mechanism for clamping the glued PVC material to the plastic drive well. Although I have now cut pvc material to lay over the previous PVC material and cut and glued the new PVC material to the old, then glued that to the drive well (using HH-66 cement), I am concerned about the durability. If it separates again, I think I am going to have some Delrin cut to the shape of the drive well edge and create a clamp system to anchor it.

Any advice is appreciated.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 7:07 pm 
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Interesting. I've been experiencing something similar. I mentioned mine in this link: https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=69983

However, this is what I sent to my dealer, and pretty much what I recently posted in that other link:

I purchased the subject inflatable kayak from you on 7/27/2017. I've been very happy with it. However this season it has developed a bubble on the top of the kayak just in front of where the mirage drive sets in. I have attached a photo of the bubble. (I just drew a circle around the bubble recently to monitor for any more enlargement. It doesn't appear to have enlarged since I first noticed it back in
March.) The bubble appears slowly as the kayak is inflated. (Ie, it takes several seconds to grow after the hull is inflated using an electric air pump.) I don't believe it is any failure of the dropstitch as the bubble is only in the top, with no abnormalities noticed on the bottom. Also, I can press down on the bubble and feel more solid material beneath it. There also seems to be some tackiness between that bubble and the material beneath it, leading me to believe it's a delamination of the outer material. Otherwise, the Kayak appears to hold air just fine. I use it several times a year, otherwise it is stored deflated inside the house. When in use, it's stored deflated, wrapped in a tarp, on my boat's roof, or inflated either towed behind the boat, or again on the roof. Inflation is required to be 3-5psi. I only inflate it to 3psi. Is there any way to fix this, or is it just cosmetic? IOW, is it safe to continue using, and if not, what would be the best way to repair it?

Also, I'm not sure how to post photos within this box, but you can link here to see photos of my kayak.

http://www.c-brats.com/albums/album3141/IMG_1436.jpg

http://www.c-brats.com/albums/album3141/IMG_1437.jpg


This is the response my dealer just sent me today:
I talked with Jacque at Hobie and he stated that he talked with you already on the forum regarding this.

If Jacque is Jbernier, I disagree with his reply, and expect more from Hobie considering the expense of this inflatable Kayak. 5 years is relatively young and it's use has been minimal, relatively speaking. Perhaps Hobie can offer some kind of repair. (A friend of mine had Hobie repair one of his Kayaks in the past.)


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 3:37 pm 
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Location: Oceanside, California
Inflatables are susceptible to heat and over-pressurization... and heat causes over-pressurization too. Inflatable products using glues are subject to glue degradation and failure from age and heat. This is an issue across the board with other companies. There are restrictions on better (but toxic) glues (EPA) I believe and this can limit the choices companies can use. Our product is unique in that we also have a well that the materials have to bond to. No mechanical connection should be required.

Unlike rotomolded and thermoformed products, inflatables can degrade just sitting in storage as the glue materials age and succumb to heat. 5 years depending on conditions and level of use is actually pretty good. I have been to the Caribbean and seen mountains of inflatables that have failed in use by charter companies.

Inflatables offer many advantages in weight, storage, and transport space required... but they do have limitations in lifespan. One of the reasons the warranty on inflatables is less than on other products.

We don't do repairs here at our facility, but there are companies that do in many areas of the country. I would contact those kinds of people (if your dealer is not able to help) for the best help in handling a repair.

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Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 3:38 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
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Location: Oceanside, California
Inflatables are susceptible to heat and over-pressurization... and heat causes over-pressurization too. Inflatable products using glues are subject to glue degradation and failure from age and heat. This is an issue across the board with other companies. There are restrictions on better (but toxic) glues (EPA) I believe and this can limit the choices companies can use. Our product is unique in that we also have a well that the materials have to bond to. No mechanical connection should be required.

Unlike rotomolded and thermoformed products, inflatables can degrade just sitting in storage as the glue materials age and succumb to heat. 5 years depending on conditions and level of use is actually pretty good. I have been to the Caribbean and seen mountains of inflatables that have failed in use by charter companies.

Inflatables offer many advantages in weight, storage, and transport space required... but they do have limitations in lifespan. One of the reasons the warranty on inflatables is less than on other products.

We don't do repairs here at our facility, but there are companies that do in many areas of the country. I would contact those kinds of people (if your dealer is not able to help) for the best help in handling a repair.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:15 pm 
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Quote:
Inflatables are susceptible to heat and over-pressurization... and heat causes over-pressurization too. Inflatable products using glues are subject to glue degradation and failure from age and heat. This is an issue across the board with other companies. There are restrictions on better (but toxic) glues (EPA) I believe and this can limit the choices companies can use. Our product is unique in that we also have a well that the materials have to bond to. No mechanical connection should be required.


I don't believe my kayak has had a problem with over-pressurization. I highly suspect that the failure with the bubble is due to the folding and unfolding of the kayak, due to the location of the bubble, that has caused a small leak in the inner material. Seeing now that there are at least two of us with a similar issue with the same year Hobie, I have to wonder how many more Hobies of this year are experiencing the same issue.

Quote:
Unlike rotomolded and thermoformed products, inflatables can degrade just sitting in storage as the glue materials age and succumb to heat. 5 years depending on conditions and level of use is actually pretty good. I have been to the Caribbean and seen mountains of inflatables that have failed in use by charter companies.


We're not talking about charter use in the Caribbean, but rather limited recreational use in the Upper Midwest. I have a Sea Eagle Kayak as well that has no issues, that I purchased at the same time. I know of others with various inflatable kayaks and dinghy's that have lasted well over 10 years. The Hobie Kayak listed for $2200+ at the time of purchase. I believe an inflatable kayak of that expense should have a life expectancy when well cared for, for more than 5 years.

Quote:
Inflatables offer many advantages in weight, storage, and transport space required... but they do have limitations in lifespan. One of the reasons the warranty on inflatables is less than on other products.


I'm learning that...

Quote:
We don't do repairs here at our facility, but there are companies that do in many areas of the country. I would contact those kinds of people (if your dealer is not able to help) for the best help in handling a repair.


Do you know of any companies in the Midwest that would do this kind of repair. Or do you have any recommendation on what the repair should compose of. I'm considering cutting around the bubble, finding and patching the leak, and then re-gluing the outer material back down. OTOH, if this is just a cosmetic issue as long as the bubble doesn't expand, I can live with that. But if I have a situation developing like the poster above, where the kayak would not hold air, or could start leaking while in use, then I believe it would be unsafe to use it.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:22 pm 
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Location: Oceanside, California
I just added my 2 cents... not an inflatables expert by any means. I don't have any recommendations for repair facilities. I would Google your area and see... has to be someone doing this.

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Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:40 pm 
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I am totally with mcs624. I live in Montana (not the Caribbean or even Arizona), don't leave my board in the Sun, store in a climate controlled garage and although my pump didn't come with an air pressure gauge (funny thing, my Wife's Body Glove inflatable SUP purchased from Costco at the same time for $399.00 did and it has no delamination) I am careful to make sure I don't overinflate it. Like I said, it is a design defect there should have been a clamping mechanism around the drive well. If mine separates again, I am going to contact a Lawyer as having a deflation in the middle of a lake is a serious safety issue. To repair it (since there are no Dealers in my area (not really surprising when you think about it), I am going to repair it like it should have been built by the factory. That is, I am going to trace out the edge of the drive well and create a template, then trace 1/2" inward of that edge and have a piece of Delrin cut to fit the template. Using an upper and lower piece, I am going to cut the lower and the upper pieces into two pieces and then place two pieces on the underside of the drive well, then glue the PVC material to the drive well (again) and place the other two pieces on top of the PVC covering the drive well and use screws to clamp the PVC material and drive well plastic to the upper and lower pieces of Delrin. That would be a more appropriate design and durable design, and something I would expect when I purchase a top of the line brand. I love my kayak, and every time I take it out, I get questions about it, but I am not so sure that my kayak loves me back (LOL).


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 10:15 am 
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I finally decided to cut into the top layer of material that was forming the bubble. I cut an H. Re-glued that top layer down with HH-66, then covered it with another patch. So far the repair seems to have worked. Still not sure where the inner material was leaking at.

Image


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 10:17 am 
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This was the earlier photos showing the bubble:

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2023 12:07 pm 
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Since that earlier bubble and repair, getting the Kayak out last month to begin this season, I have yet another bubble near the drive well. This one is both on the top and bottom, so I suspect it's a failure of the drop stitch. I've already purchased a new Sea Eagle 300X inflatable kayak, since Hobie doesn't seem to stand behind their product, and in fact has ignored my email questions about this situation and if their newer kayaks have been improved. What I'm wondering is if the drive well is just a plastic insert with the hull material itself glued up together leaving the hole for the plastic insert? In other words, if I don't have any leakage, even with the bubble, does that indicate that the hull is still sound and secure, other than the drop stitch failing allowing for the bubble? (Better yet, does anyone have any photos of what the hull looks like if that plastic drive well is removed?)


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2023 3:02 pm 
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mcs624 wrote:
does that indicate that the hull is still sound and secure

Of course not, but I have had a center part (slowly) deflate on i12s and the side bladders gave me enough flotation to limp a mile home. The seat got totally unstable, but pedals still worked. So I could see still using it in forgiving settings, enjoying it's mighty and unique fin drive which will blow the doors off SlugEagle 300x, which I only use for surfing. Or maybe sell the drive (like I did) which is highly valued on craigslist or whatever.

Perhaps 6 years ago in this forum there were accounts of repairs around the drivewell possibly with photos, but old stuff tends to disappear or be exhausting to find. Of course until recently there was no dropstitch. I have only used my iTrek11 once until disabling back injury, so can't share experience there. My 300x works better with their optional oversize fins, and I keep only the 2 forward (of 16) scuppers closed since water rams in from forward motion. What a joy to surf breaking waves; it needs the fist of head high white water since is is too slow to ride the blue. But a total sluggard relative to Hobie in flat water.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2023 3:17 pm 
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I’ll take the sluggard for less than half the cost of something that becomes useless after only 3 years because of defects that allow delamination! But that is good to know the “pontoons” can still keep the rest of it afloat in an emergency. Still wondering however if the plastic drive well was pulled out, if the hull continued as a oblong hole or if that plastic is a part of the hull?


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