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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:32 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:16 pm
Posts: 602
Location: Colorado
Yep.. I always have the peddles in the socket and also often use them.

About a week ago, two of us with TI's were talking to a third person with sailing experience who was thinking about getting a TI. Question was how do you tack the TI. My TI buddy doesnt like to use the pedals too much and explained to bear off a little to pick up speed, start the turn, ease the sail.. etc.

New person asked me.. Just pedal through it, the pedals are why I bought this boat in the first place.

Interesting the different ways this boat gets used. My wife would also never go with me if she could not pedal.

Im not sure having the pedals in place would explain the speed difference as the drag from the pedals should be about the same front to back. However, if the speed we did the test at was much different, that would be a big variable


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:54 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:47 am
Posts: 24
stringy, glad to see you have a fire extinguisher on board. I see plenty of kayakers with gas motors and no extinguisher.


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:33 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:16 pm
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Location: Colorado
Probably why you dont see fire extinguisher on boats like a TI with an outboard at least in the US

Up to 26': One B-I size extinguisher. Fire extinguishers are not required on outboard-powered pleasure boats less than 26' in length, not carrying passengers for hire, without permanently-installed fuel tanks, that do not have spaces where explosive or flammable gasses or vapors can collect.

This is a good reason to NOT store any external gas tanks inside the hull.

One source for that among many.. https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/ ... inguishers


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:18 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 2848
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
jacksonbigtuna wrote:
stringy, glad to see you have a fire extinguisher on board. I see plenty of kayakers with gas motors and no extinguisher.

I’m guessing you're referring to that red bottle behind the rear passenger JBT?
It’s not a clear pic (still from a video), but if I tried to put out a fire with that it would have the opposite effect ...its a 1L fuel bottle! (cue David Bowie song)
Back on P10 of this thread we discussed safety requirements and according to our regs an extinguisher is only required if you have an electric start, electric motor, gas/fuel stove -not for a petrol outboard. Sounds strange I know, but technically anyone with a Torqeedo should have an extinguisher!

I agree with Walt. On the Islands, as long as fuel is carried externally (never inside the hull) the risk of a fire is very low.

Still, carrying an extinguisher is a good idea, but a bit problematic given the harsh conditions we get on our Islands. I have thought about it but have yet to get one. I was looking at a small 500g aerosol DCP available at Bunnings. It could be kept in a dry bag stored behind the front seat, which is suggested by Tony back on P10.


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:13 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
Posts: 2893
Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
I keep my extinguisher in a drybag

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:48 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:13 pm
Posts: 489
This extinguisher fits nicely into one of the TI bottleholders. It's not a full-sized extinguisher but it gets the job done. Much better than nothing, and for an extinguisher to be effective it must be readily accessible. Your best hope to put out a fire is immediately after it starts. If you have to fumble around to retrieve it, the fire can rapidly go out of control, especially if it's a gasoline fire. You need to get your hands on an extinguisher as soon as possible after the fire starts.


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:29 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 2848
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Yes, that’s a good point Pro10is -it must be easy to get to.
However you want it to work properly when needed, so protecting it from the elements is also important, especially the salt water torrents that we cop on our Islands at times.

In the link you provided above are some interesting test videos of the different extinguishers.
A Dry Chemical Powder extinguisher is the most versatile and will extinguish most fires however their effectiveness is wind related. The powder has to get to the seat of the fire which can be difficult to do in strong winds.

In reality, copious quantities of water will extinguish most fires, so a bucket is probably all that’s needed on Islands. The bailer that should be carried as part of our safety equipment can double up as an extinguisher ...so keep it handy!


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:33 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:13 pm
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stringy wrote:
Yes, that’s a good point Pro10is -it must be easy to get to.
However you want it to work properly when needed, so protecting it from the elements is also important, especially the salt water torrents that we cop on our Islands at times.

In the link you provided above are some interesting test videos of the different extinguishers.
A Dry Chemical Powder extinguisher is the most versatile and will extinguish most fires however their effectiveness is wind related. The powder has to get to the seat of the fire which can be difficult to do in strong winds.

In reality, copious quantities of water will extinguish most fires, so a bucket is probably all that’s needed on Islands. The bailer that should be carried as part of our safety equipment can double up as an extinguisher ...so keep it handy!

A fire caused by gasoline, which is probably the most likely thing on a TI to cause a fire, is classified as a Class B fire. Water is not recommended for Class B fires because it can disperse the gasoline and thus spread the fire.

The fire extinguisher I referenced is suitable for Class B fires and is very resistant to salt water exposure as it has few working parts and they are not exposed. I would recommend using this as a first response because it's easy to store on a TI in a way where you could reach it very quickly. But I would also recommend having a real fire extinguisher stowed onboard in a safe location also in case this did not put out the fire completely.


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:45 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
With small amounts of fuel, water will extinguish a flammable fuel fire without spreading it.
BTW- I couldn’t find where it stated the Tundra is suitable for Class B flammable liquids. It only mentions grease in the specs. It does say not to store in areas exposed to heat. Could be a problem in direct sunlight. I’d like to know what’s in it, as it’s not allowed to be sold in California.


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:48 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:13 pm
Posts: 489
stringy wrote:
With small amounts of fuel, water will extinguish a flammable fuel fire without spreading it.
BTW- I couldn’t find where it stated the Tundra is suitable for Class B flammable liquids. It only mentions grease in the specs. It does say not to store in areas exposed to heat. Could be a problem in direct sunlight. I’d like to know what’s in it, as it’s not allowed to be sold in California.

I'm not a fireman, nor an expert on extinguishing fires, but the experts do specifically say not to use water on a Class B (gasoline) fire.

Here is one rated for Class B fires. Here is another. As you can see they get very favorable reviews. These use expandable foam to smother fires. It's highly doubtful sunlight alone will cause any issues with them. I've had mine onboard in full sunlight at 90+ degrees since 2015. They're only rated for 3 years use so at the end of last season, after buying a replacement, I decided to try the old one out on a gasoline fire I made on my gravel driveway. It extinguished it in seconds.

These are, of course, certainly not the best fire extinguishers available, but for an easily storable, easily reachable, first response Class B suitable extinguisher for the TI, this is probably the best bet. Certainly better than water or a bulky extinguisher stored inside the hull which would be difficult to retrieve in time, and most certainly better than nothing.


Last edited by pro10is on Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:51 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:16 pm
Posts: 602
Location: Colorado
I did a quick search on outboard fires and it seemed every thing I could find involved the electrical system.

My Suzuki 2.5 has a very minimal electrical system and even then its extremely low power/ energy.

Im going to keep the fuel storage above deck in a container intended for gas as is legally required. The fire extinguisher is going on the list that also includes one of those at sea hurricane survivable life rafts.

My cupped hand to fling water on the outboard will have to do for now..

Now if someone can find a case where one of these 2 or 2.5 hp outboards that dont even have battery charging capability actually did catch on fire.. I will change my priorities.


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:10 pm
Posts: 68
Saw this new electric outboard entry:

https://www.epropulsion.com/spirit-1


and this review from Boat Test:

https://boattest.com/article/epropulsio ... ailable-us


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:44 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:38 pm
Posts: 115
Location: Pennsylvania - Philly Area
All, Brief 2021 update on the use of my 2.5 hp Suzuki outboard motor on my TI from my original post.

See link below from original post:
https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic. ... 73#p302473

Youtube video showing mount: https://youtu.be/SUyqkqqZbkU

Youtube video search showing videos of the TI and outboard on the water:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... s+kayak+ti

Been actively using the TI with the outboard for over 3 years in challenging coastal / saltwater conditions.

Below is a summary that I recently put together in response to questions from fellow TI sailor Damit who recently picked up a used Suzuki 2.5 hp outboard for his TI:

Update June 2021

- The 2.5 hp Suzuki - provides extra power, safety and range for the TI

- The outboard motor mount has worked very well for over 3 years with no need for any modifications. All the attachments, tacks, stainless steel bolts, aluminum square tubes have worked great with no changes needed...not even a loose bolt. Very durable and trouble free in challenging offshore / coastal conditions....even in a surf capsize!

- Construction - takes a bit of time but even an untrained metal worker like me was able to cut the aluminum tubes and drill out the holes in the proper location. Note - I did not have any detailed measurements...just constructed the mount one piece at a time starting with the track mount and working my way up. Had my TI in my garage but my tool room (with drill press) was in the basement.....each piece was custom measured and cut. I used a hand held hack saw to cut the square aluminum tubes....took a bit of time. You could save time and improve quality by using a circular metal saw... I also hand filed down all the edges that the main sheet could reach. I choose a clean design with drill holes on one side of the tube but not the top surface where I could. A drill press will help a lot.

- Transport: Most of the time I travel 1-2 hours to a boat ramp. Sometimes long trips 20+ hours over 2 days... I transport the Suzuki in my car for the short trips and dismounted and stored on the utility trailer that I use for the TI for the longer runs. I have left the motor mounted on the TI for short 10 minute or less trips. Why - too much force on the mount with the Suzuki mounted during transportation (pot holes / ruts in the road). I turn off the fuel line when transporting. I have not had any issues with fuel leaks in the car. I also store an extra gallon of gas on the TI in addition to the internal tank.

- Turning off: I generally just hit the stop button and turn off the fuel supply for transport. I do try to flush the outboard with fresh water within 24 hours of pulling the TI out of the salt water (just stick the Suzuki in a bucket of fresh water and run for 60 seconds or so).

- Reminder - at least in the US, if you have a motor - additional safety items may be needed (fire extinguisher, others, ...) and different type of registration may also be needed.

Bottom line - the Suzuki has been a dependable addition to my TI.

_________________
Jim
Hobie TI 2016 - Offshore rig - Outboard
Hobie Kona 2014
Hobie AI 2015 - sold
Hobie Rev 13 2014 - sold
Hobie Outback - 2008 - sold


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:57 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 3025
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
We just kept the outboards on the boat full time, and stored the boat in our garage, (with the motors tilted down). I did need to re-enforce the hull a little to support the twin outboards.
I also had to strengthen the trailer at the back some, (the old back cross bar on the trailer had bent, from pot holes, (you are correct, that extra weight from the outboard needs to be considered, especially when trailering.
We ran the things for around 8 years with no issues, (once I strengthened things up a little).
One note/ observation), our motors often got submerged when in rough water offshore, On my Honda’s, this caused rust in several areas inside the cowling, (I went thru a couple magnitos, and throttle cables). After that I made a point to remove the engine cowlings once in a while, spray and clean well with fresh water, then soak everything down with something like WD40, Yamaha also makes a spray fog for the same purpose that the Yamaha dealer recommended, ( for outboards used in Florida salt water, (the keys is where most of the Yamaha spray stuff is sold, (at least that’s what the dealer told me, nobody else bothers I would guess)).
I couldn’t imagine going far offshore with a TI that’s not heavily re-enforced, and lots of really big sails, and at least one outboard, (especially in the very dangerous keys).
FE


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