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| Barber hauler Vs Bungee http://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=53324 |
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| Author: | Sardinian Islander [ Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Barber hauler Vs Bungee |
Hello. I am an absolute newbie therefore I hope in your understanding in case my question was a nonsense. I pratically used my AI yesterday for the first time and, as reported my many other users, I immediately faced the issue of the downwind sailing when the Island doesnt use all its potential. Being quite tall i have some disadvantage on the TI but maybe I could have an advantage since I can reach the external side of the aka quite withot the need of acrobatics. Though I have seen the solutions with the barber hauler or a sort of boom, I thought maybe I could take advantage of my long arms just using a very simple bungee line starting from the aka and going to the clew instead of building a complicate, expansive and annoying double line with barber hauler. I undersand that some systems can give the satisfaction of the top performance but also simplicity and free space is important. Anyway I have a doubt. What happens during an unintentional gybe? the sail will suddenly try to go to the other side and the bungee will hold it though with an elastic tension. I think I could free it in a few seconds also because the clew will be very close to my head but I wonder if this sudden action could damage the sail or have other negative effects. Thanx in advance. |
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| Author: | vetgam [ Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Barber hauler Vs Bungee |
I've used the bungee method and have always been able to quickly redirect the boat to the opposite reach without event when suprised by an unintentional gybe. I would not take the bungee off when you have stress on the mainsail. I could see a good bungee faceslap happening. I've not placing much effort on the barber hauler these days. My GPS dosen't measure a speed difference or at least enough to worry about. Wonder if others see a measureable difference. Vetgam |
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| Author: | tonystott [ Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Barber hauler Vs Bungee |
After being used to having up to seven controls for the mainsail of a J24 yacht, I love the relative simplicity of the Island design. As you have probably seen on earlier threads, I simply cut a small notch in the end on my paddle, which can catch onto the small rope dangling from the clew. If I let the mainsheet out fully, and push the clew out with the paddle (leaving the inner end of the paddle on the side of my body - I sail from the front seat of my TI) the sail takes on an ideal shape for downwind. But.... quite honestly, sailing 100% downwind increases the chance of unexpected gibes, so instead I just sail about 20 degrees off downwind, which greatly reduces the chance of a chinese gibe, and also makes use of the paddle "outhaul" marginally useful, as you will need to add some tension to the mainsheet to keep the telltales flowing nicely. The slight angle off straight downwind also has the potential to increase apparent wind, and therefore possibly enable you to reach your downhill destination actually sooner than sailing directly downwind, as you gibe downwind, while making for a more enjoyable ride. So my recommendation would be for you to cut a small (about 6mm) notch in your paddle, and try that first, rather than add any complicated outhaul links to the akas (by the way, nobody has mentioned that the upward pull of such outhauls will tend to lift the stern of the ama (and pointing the ama bo downwards slightly), with potential reduction of sailing efficiency counteracting the benefits of the outhaul on sail shape). By the way, gibing downwind is normal practice for multihulls.... |
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| Author: | Sardinian Islander [ Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Barber hauler Vs Bungee |
Thank you Tony I went to read your previous post and i think it's an interesting idea that i will try before doing any other attempt with lines. The only thing that i didnt understand is what happens during the unexpected gybe. where doews the paddle go? I agree with you that it should be better to sail not exatly downwind but 15 or 20 degrees aside but it's possible that some wrong movement, distractions or change of wind direction could make u gybe. I think that I could also try to use an extensible arm used in my house to clean the ceiling. those sticks already have a plastic end that could easily enter in a cord ring at the end of the sail. thanx u being a novice i have so many projects and ideas of things to do but honestly i dont want to transform my island into something too different from what it's now |
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| Author: | tonystott [ Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Barber hauler Vs Bungee |
The beauty of the paddle notch is that once tension is removed, the clew of the sail simply comes away from the paddle. In the rare event of an inexpected gibe, I just grab the inner end of the paddle and pull it inwards to release the sail. I can see issues with releasing outhauls by comparison. As you can probably tell, I am a devotee of the KISS principle.... |
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| Author: | chrisj [ Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Barber hauler Vs Bungee |
Sardinian Islander wrote: I think that I could also try to use an extensible arm used in my house to clean the ceiling. those sticks already have a plastic end that could easily enter in a cord ring at the end of the sail. I use an extendible boat hook for that purpose, but I find it's subject to the law of diminishing returns. Once you push the clew out more than a couple of metres, it becomes unstable and doesn't improve downwind performance any further. |
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| Author: | frodo [ Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Barber hauler Vs Bungee |
I'm interested in a way of holding the sail out in downhill runs too. Not so much as a performance boost but to stop the sail flapping about when its a bit sloppy and low tide in river stops me changing angles out of the channel. My fav thought atm is a traveler behind the rear seat. May also help with sail shape on a reach. Track would need to be removable after sail. |
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| Author: | Slaughter [ Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Barber hauler Vs Bungee |
I've been using a FlexiBoom for years now without an issue. There is a definite speed difference and it also eliminates the flappy sail, although I, like Tony. tend to sail slightly off wind just incase. |
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| Author: | Sardinian Islander [ Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Barber hauler Vs Bungee |
those comments (thanx eberybody) convinced me to abandon both the ideas of the hauler and the bungee and to point at the "let's use a stick" method. I didnt understand where the inner side of the paddle/stick is fixed. I think it's inside the cockpit but where? do u hold it with your hand? Chris the cleaning stick that i was referring is extensible therefore I think u can adjust it's lenght in order not to be too short or too long, i didnt understand what you meant. The flexiboom in inserted in a pin attached to the mast, i saw it in the video. Giorgio |
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| Author: | Slaughter [ Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Barber hauler Vs Bungee |
If you don't have the facilities to modify the clamp that attaches to the base of a mast as in the FlexiBoom, then definitely go with Tony's paddle slot idea. No extra bits to carry and is the simplest mod you could ever make to gain extra speed. |
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| Author: | fusioneng [ Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Barber hauler Vs Bungee |
Yea with the slotted paddle, you need it (the paddle) on the boat anyway for backup, when you want to use it as a barbor hauler you just slip the notch into the tie up rope on the clew, then shove the other end of the paddle into the front mesh pocket (on the TI, not sure about the AI), works great. Bob |
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