Solo on a TI, front or back seat?

My experience has been that if the winds are light the front seat is better as the controls are handy however when the wind really starts blowing the back seat is better so the craft doesn't nosedive and the rudder doesn't lift out of the water causing steering problems. Am I just stating the obvious.

When solo I have only sat in the front seat, you don't have access to any controls from the back (furler, centerboard, etc), and I feel kind of trapped in the back seat, as there is no way to hike out to balance the boat. The whole trick to sailing a tri in my opinion is to use ballast weight to balance the boat and keep those AMA's out of the water (no different from any sailboat). Besides I get uncomfortable just sitting in the seat on long hauls or I want to give my legs a break (I pedal 100% of the time always, except when I'm hiked out). Of course my boat is a little different from most TI's as I have a lot more sail area than most. Bottom line where you sit is your own personal preference and the boat is quite capable from either seat.
Hope this helps
Bob

My controls are arranged so I can do anything from either seat. Having said that however, I sit in the rear seat 95% of the time when going solo. When sailing it's a little drier and far easier to see the telltales without having to strain your neck.

About the only time I set in the front seat is when pedaling the boat solo in high winds. This helps trim the boat so that the bow rides a little lower and is less prone to getting blown off the wind.

If you have a boat, try it both ways and see what you think. If you pedal from the rear seat, do make sure you keep the centerboard down.

Where we live in sarasota I mostly sail in the inter coastal which is very narrow and I find myself sailing 90% of the time either upwind or downwind, very seldom on a reach, it's just the geography of the area... With my wing jib the best point of sail on my boat is very close hauled upwind (10-20 deg off true wind). My boat is probably unique and likely doesn't apply to anyone else. I find that pulling the full mainsail as tight as possible pedaling then turning slightly off the wind until the sail fills sets the boat into an un-natural mode where you make good vmg headway. As long as you keep pedaling and maintain tight rudder control you can keep going, as soon as I stop pedaling the boat rounds into the wind and stops. I only seem to be able to use this technique from the front seat when solo, when sitting in the back the bow is way out of the water and the wind catches the bow too much making it impossible to maintain that unusual/ un-natural point of sail so I end up having to furl the sail in some, and have to tack back and forth to make any headway at all. As Tom points out in higher winds and sitting in the back you pretty much need to have that center board down and keep tight rudder control to prevent the boat from blowing broadside to the wind (not a good situation for me typically). That's one of the great things about the TI, with the furl able sail you can adjust for pretty much any conditions, from either the front seat or from the back seat it's totally your choice, and the boat is totally capable from either sitting position. There really is no right or wrong, you have complete control from either seat, it's just your own personal preference.
I know of no other boats out there where you can keep complete control of the boat in pretty much any conditions, no wind, no problem, just pedal home, if high winds come upon you, just furl the the sail in some and use the pedal drives to assist on your tacks, the boat still gets you home safely. Pretty amazing in my book, the boat doesn't care where you sit. I'm out in my tI pretty much every weekend, many weekends I'm the only sail boat out there, other weekends there can be hundreds of sail boats, all depending on the conditions (with the TI it just doesn't matter (within reason of course)).
Bob

I read somewhere (can't remember where) the trick of tying the end of the mainsheet to the end of the furling line so you can furl from the back seat - it works quite well solo. I haven't figured out yet how to get at the centerboard handle, but I'll think of something. Right now I just reach up there and pull it down or push it up.

I've never tried the front seat before, but I might give it a try.

Handling will be better from the rear seat in any significant wind. I think faster as well. Sitting forward seems to make steering more sluggish and also makes tacking a bit harder.

Same on a catamaran.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Handling will be better from the rear seat in any significant wind. I think faster as well. Sitting forward seems to make steering more sluggish and also makes tacking a bit harder.

Same on a catamaran and windsurfer... you move aft as the wind increases.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

A couple of you guys mentioned, in certain situations having the center board down. Don't you want it down all the time ? When don't you want it down ?

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2013 Revo 13
2014 Outback
2016 Outback
2012 Oasis
2015 Oasis
2015 Pro Angler
2014 TI

The board is designed to prevent leeway and/or translate lateral movement into forward power. When traveling downwind, all it really does is create more underwater drag, albeit not all that much. But, you'll gain a little bit of speed if you retract it any time you're attempting to sail deep downwind. I never bother to retract mine, however, as I have to move forward to do it and I don't find the difference to be all that great. But I haven't taken any scientific measurements either - just seat of the pants feel.

Like a catamaran and windsurfers... the board can be raised going down wind. Partially when reaching and in higher winds. Sometimes even going up wind. Boards tend to "trip" the boat if all the way down in high wind. Also like a plane's wing. Smaller when faster, less surface area required.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

A fair amount of my sailing will be at high altitude in the mountians and the higher you go, seems the faster the wind can change. I like the idea of sitting in the back for solo in higher winds.. but that is also exactly when being able to reef quickly would be the most imporant. It looks like the centerboard will release in a grounding (the knob has bevels that look like it would ride up over the stop?) so maybe not so critical to have easy access to it.

I suppose a search will find this but Im wondering what mod works for being able to reef from the back seat? I suppose you end up picking either the front or the back for the reefing.. hard to make it work for both?

I almost always sit in the rear so did a mod to furl from there (link below). I don't remove my furling line for transport, just tie a knot in the mast end and pull it tight to the pulley and stuff the rear end into the mesh pocket. On the rare occasion I do sit up front, I just leave that line stowed and use the original furling line that I keep onboard. The mod doesn't interfere with its use.


Yes, the centerboard will swing up if it hits - if you keep one handy, you can also raise it with a paddle.

Thread on rear furling: http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=37136&p=163258&hilit=rear+furling#p163258

Thanks!! Lots of good info there!

Ill post in this thread since it was useful to me in the past.

Couldn’t say if solo sailing from the TI is best done from the front of back seat.. but Ive tried both and overall prefer the back seat. However, the stock control is setup best for the front seat. After using the boat for a while modifying stuff over a few iterations, this is what I have ended up with.

FYI, where possible there are backing plates. But some of these spots are about impossible to get to from the inside. If whatever you put on the boat can have a force that will pull it off.. better have backing plates. However, if whatever you put on the boat ONLY has a sheer force (i.e., it’s pulled "from the side") numerous screws in addition to aluminum plates (that the screws thread into) are not going to pull out or move. I’m sure someone will disagree with this.. but what I have done isn’t going to budge and hasn’t budged with a fair amount of use. But you have to keep this in mind.





picture below - the reef line always stays with the boat. All the hardware for reefing from the front is still on the boat but for what I have, you either setup the reef for the front only (stock config) - or for the back only.




In the last picture below, I had been using the stock pulley on the sheet line (the pulley in the picture below to the far right side in the picture that is not used) and always felt that I needed to raise the cleat. An idea I got on this forum was to move the position of the block which changes the angle of the sheet cleating. What is shown in the picture below is a pleasure to use.


FYI, here are two videos. The first one is when I first got the boat and tried both the front and back seats. I was also testing out an outboard motor mount so had some weight in the back even when I was sitting in the front seat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmkKWrM ... tion=share

This second video is of a long downwinder from the backseat. I have to say.. my opinion is that TI from the back seat is the best solo setup out there for down wind in windier conditions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWkM0BL ... load_owner

I cant say which is better.. and know two friends that are better sailors than I am that prefer the front. But, thought I would show how I modified the controls for the back seat.

The only control I dont have very good access from the back seat in the centerboard but since the centerboard will kick up on its own if grounded, this hasnt been any issue at all. However.. it is nice when I have the second person in the front who will run the centerboard.