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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:21 am 
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Location: Colorado
Stringy said earlier that when motoring, the TI goes a little faster with your wieght in the front seat vs the back seat. Well.. I needed to run the Suziki 2.5 since it had not been started since last April so went out yesterday and duplicated that same test.

And.. the TI is a little faster from the front seat but by only a slight amount. What I did was to set the throttle to about 1/2 which is cruising at sort of the higher end speed wise of what I normally run at. I have a GPS/fishfinder mounted on the boat and I know the speed reading will jump around so for both the front and back speed measurements, I took a bunch of readings and then averaged them. I made a attempt to keep everything constant except the front to back seat and also took care to accurately measure speed. I think it was a good test.

Results.. TI is a 2015 and I weigh around 205 pnds
Rear seat 5.83 knots
Front seat 6.18 knots
Delta is .35 knots - faster from the front seat.

The front seat is faster by about 6 percent! Im not going to start sitting in the front seat now to motor as that is not really much and I could have just clicked up the throttle if that little bit of speed were important. Plus the hassle of moving back and forth.

What is more interesting about that is that in light wind, and for in the range of my weight, the 2015 hull may be a little less drag when sailed from the front seat - and the boat would be faster. However, I think the TI has a lot better control (and a lot dryer) when sailed from the back seat when the wind picks up so Im not changing anything. But. it is interesting.

I haven't moved my motor mount since the first post in this thread - its just behind me. That spot is a little better weight wise and the closer access to the motor was nice since it took a few pulls to get the outboard started after sitting for likely four months. But simply getting the outboard away from your head even a few feet makes a difference for noise level as can be easily noticed by just leaning forward. Anyhow.. happy with that location.

Took some pictures from yesterday. With the motor forward, you need a splash guard and you can see mine doing a perfect job of keeping water off the rear round hatch. My hull was bone dry after the sailing and motoring day.

Image

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:44 am 
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Location: Colorado
And a couple more pictures from yesterday (South Park Colorado)

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:49 pm 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Good to get that confirmation Walt.
I get a bit better improvement of around 1/2 knot on the Speedpuck when motoring solo and moving to the front seat. I weigh 175lbs, my TI is a 2010 and my motor sits further back.

I get the best speeds sailing when hiked out on my haka.
Two up -sitting just aft of the front seat.
Solo -sitting further back, opposite the rear footwell, which is why I cantilevered the end of my V3 haka.

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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:09 pm 
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I am pretty much on board with Walt. Top speed not so much a priority, as long as I get back. I find there is a lot of splashing (I have to make splash guards for the bow this week) when motoring directly into the wind with big waves. Sitting in back helps a bit. It may be ok on a dead calm day like the pics he submitted, but then I am happy taking my time relaxing lol. Splash guard, I agree, really helps.


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:18 pm 
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Well, I have been learneded goodly again :oops: . Stringy was right in an earlier post about my transom height. While it was no issue sailing alone or even two people before now, 2 days this weekend I found out the wet way that it does need to be raised. It was only certain conditions, but true. Easy mod to make, but that's what happens when I ask for advice and ignore it (sorry Stringy). Had a great weekend of 3 days sailing non the less :D .


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:45 pm 
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Location: Colorado
I kind of dismissed the .35 knot difference I get when running the outboard and moving from the rear seat to the front.

But.. if you had that much difference between boats sailing... its very significant.

With a conventional monohull sailboat, you dont want to put weight on the transom. I know some racing boats like the J24 are required to carry an outboard by the fleet rules but the outboard is stored inside the cabin while sailing because they dont want that weight on the transom.

So.. Stringy and I are a little different in weight but the Suziki outboard is 30 pnds and I think most of these AL motor mounts come in around 7 pounds. So the total of the outboard and bracket plus some gas might be just under 40 pounds.

My outboard is approximately 15 inches forward of where Stringy has his. Assuming our cruising speeds are similar, I saw .35 knts difference moving back to front seat. Stringy saw .5 knts doing the same thing, constant outboard throttle and moving from the back to front seat.

I think this imply's that having the combined pilot plus outboard weight on the boat a little better centered front to back has less hull drag. This would be hard to actually verify but does the data just described mean that putting the outboard weight so far back would make the boat sail a little slower during times when the outboard is raised? Ie, placing the outboard more forward and just behind the rear seat would result in a faster sailing boat especially if you sail from the back seat. Similar to trailerable mono hull sailboats.. you want to keep the transom light weight??

???


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:00 pm 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Another variable I notice from your pics Walt is that you have the drive in whilst sailing, whereas I never have the drive in. Actually since adding the motor I only carry one drive ...and it’s dismantled so it fits in the forward hatch as emergency backup only.


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:14 pm 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
YakYakallday wrote:
Well, I have been learneded goodly again :oops: . Stringy was right in an earlier post about my transom height. While it was no issue sailing alone or even two people before now, 2 days this weekend I found out the wet way that it does need to be raised. It was only certain conditions, but true. Easy mod to make, but that's what happens when I ask for advice and ignore it (sorry Stringy). Had a great weekend of 3 days sailing non the less :D .

Sorry to hear that YYaD and no need to apologise. I had hoped because your mount sat further forward that it might have been a bit less exposed to wave action.
Like yours, our lower mount was OK most of the time but it only took one trip in the wrong conditions to realise it needed to be lifted. That trip the Suzuki motor got splashed so much I wondered whether it would stall, but it never missed a beat!


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:32 am 
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Location: Colorado
Yep.. I always have the peddles in the socket and also often use them.

About a week ago, two of us with TI's were talking to a third person with sailing experience who was thinking about getting a TI. Question was how do you tack the TI. My TI buddy doesnt like to use the pedals too much and explained to bear off a little to pick up speed, start the turn, ease the sail.. etc.

New person asked me.. Just pedal through it, the pedals are why I bought this boat in the first place.

Interesting the different ways this boat gets used. My wife would also never go with me if she could not pedal.

Im not sure having the pedals in place would explain the speed difference as the drag from the pedals should be about the same front to back. However, if the speed we did the test at was much different, that would be a big variable


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:54 am 
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stringy, glad to see you have a fire extinguisher on board. I see plenty of kayakers with gas motors and no extinguisher.


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:33 pm 
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Location: Colorado
Probably why you dont see fire extinguisher on boats like a TI with an outboard at least in the US

Up to 26': One B-I size extinguisher. Fire extinguishers are not required on outboard-powered pleasure boats less than 26' in length, not carrying passengers for hire, without permanently-installed fuel tanks, that do not have spaces where explosive or flammable gasses or vapors can collect.

This is a good reason to NOT store any external gas tanks inside the hull.

One source for that among many.. https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/ ... inguishers


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:18 pm 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
jacksonbigtuna wrote:
stringy, glad to see you have a fire extinguisher on board. I see plenty of kayakers with gas motors and no extinguisher.

I’m guessing you're referring to that red bottle behind the rear passenger JBT?
It’s not a clear pic (still from a video), but if I tried to put out a fire with that it would have the opposite effect ...its a 1L fuel bottle! (cue David Bowie song)
Back on P10 of this thread we discussed safety requirements and according to our regs an extinguisher is only required if you have an electric start, electric motor, gas/fuel stove -not for a petrol outboard. Sounds strange I know, but technically anyone with a Torqeedo should have an extinguisher!

I agree with Walt. On the Islands, as long as fuel is carried externally (never inside the hull) the risk of a fire is very low.

Still, carrying an extinguisher is a good idea, but a bit problematic given the harsh conditions we get on our Islands. I have thought about it but have yet to get one. I was looking at a small 500g aerosol DCP available at Bunnings. It could be kept in a dry bag stored behind the front seat, which is suggested by Tony back on P10.


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:13 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
I keep my extinguisher in a drybag

_________________
Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker and Hangkai outboard
only cool people follow the (non-magnetic) titanium weight-loss program! lol.)


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:48 am 
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This extinguisher fits nicely into one of the TI bottleholders. It's not a full-sized extinguisher but it gets the job done. Much better than nothing, and for an extinguisher to be effective it must be readily accessible. Your best hope to put out a fire is immediately after it starts. If you have to fumble around to retrieve it, the fire can rapidly go out of control, especially if it's a gasoline fire. You need to get your hands on an extinguisher as soon as possible after the fire starts.


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:29 pm 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Yes, that’s a good point Pro10is -it must be easy to get to.
However you want it to work properly when needed, so protecting it from the elements is also important, especially the salt water torrents that we cop on our Islands at times.

In the link you provided above are some interesting test videos of the different extinguishers.
A Dry Chemical Powder extinguisher is the most versatile and will extinguish most fires however their effectiveness is wind related. The powder has to get to the seat of the fire which can be difficult to do in strong winds.

In reality, copious quantities of water will extinguish most fires, so a bucket is probably all that’s needed on Islands. The bailer that should be carried as part of our safety equipment can double up as an extinguisher ...so keep it handy!


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