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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:35 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 3058
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
I just use pressure treated 2x4 wood for all my motor transom boards, seems to hold up fine, allows the little spikes in the motor bracket to dig in, and the big washers dig in over time. I think the wood also helps with vibration.
And best of all wood is very cheap, a 2x4 x 8ft is around $7-8 bucks and is enough to make a dozen mounts.
I'm not promoting one thing or another, just sharing what worked well for us.
Another factor for me is I would rather the transom board break off in the event of a terrible collision or mishap, (yea I've had a few horrendous crashes), way cheaper than a whole new lower unit or new kayak hull.
FE


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:20 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:13 pm
Posts: 656
domr wrote:
The reason I suggest a front and back plate is to introduce a 10° transom angle, alluded to earlier in this thread or another motor mount thread I believe. I don't think anyone has determined there is a real need for this.

I haven't measured the maximum opening of the outboard motor clamp, but this ends up being about 3" thick:

Image


The only thing to be careful about here is not to exceed the motor clamp's maximum opening.

The best transom angle (trim) setting has yet to be determined for a TI. It would be really great to make this adjustable for testing and also to compensate for different loads (e.g. if you had a passenger or not).

This could possibly be done by adding a pivot block to the mount.


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:30 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:25 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Seffner, Florida
Hi,

I am sorry, I missed your 10 Degree note in your original post.

Another way you could get your 10 degree angle with a lot less machining is to put a 10 degree shim between your 2 risers and the long cross bar. Then you wouldn't need an 10 degree taper block on the back and the front one could be flat.

Another thing you could do instead of cutting the recesses like I do is to use a hole saw and get you desired dimensions and just take a piece of 1/4" aluminum plate and drill the holes to the correct size and also drill a few other holes in the plate and bolt the plate with the holes in it to your bracket.

Having a CNC machine makes cutting the recesses a breeze. But if you are using other hand tools the hole saw technique will work just a well.

Just some suggestions that may be of help. BTW nice drawing. What CAD program are you using?

John

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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:51 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:25 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Seffner, Florida
Here is what I was talking about in a 10 Degree Wedge.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:55 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:16 pm
Posts: 605
Location: Colorado
I have been using a Suzuki 2.5 on a TI since 2015 and dont know what problem you are trying to solve with the 10 degree angle?

So what is the problem being solved? What is the benefit?

Curious also.. Hobie cnc solutions, are you associated with Hobie the company that we all bought the boats from?


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:55 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:25 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Seffner, Florida
Hi Walt,

First, I am in no way affiliated with the Hobie Cat Company. I own a 2018 Hobie Pro Angler 14 witch I bought and paid for myself, not a Hobie team sponsored individual .

Thanks for your legitimate questions on the topic at hand.

I have a HAAS 2007 TM-1P 3 Axis CNC Milling machine and the necessary CAD/CAM software to design, items which in my opinion, are helpful and enhance the overall experience of my Hobie product. I have displayed items that fall into this category and others as time goes on.

I am no stranger to mounting trolling motors on Kayaks as I have made different versions to adapt different trolling motors to the former kayak that I owned. These worked well when properly installed and never had any complaints on the design offered.

One of the individuals that posted to this thread Indicated that he was wanting to apply a 10 degree offset to the mounting of his outboard. I did not question his reason for wanting to apply this offset. As this whole thread seems to revolve around DIY brackets that have been adapted to various customers Hobie Kayaks it would seem that their designs were offered here to generate discussion and hopefully add to the overall success of all the designs offered for consideration. It is up to each of us to determine which components of the DIY designs offered are suitable for their individual use.

Like you I am curious, and maybe you could tell me if any of these designs are copy righted i.e. patent pending?

My original question: Is anyone having any issues with the trolling motors/outboards coming loose from their individual setups, whatever they may be?

I have offered a few suggestions that MAY???? be of help. Maybe not, and it is up to each individual to determine if a suggestion is appropriate for their application.

I wish you every success with your application with your Suzuki 2.5 outboard and glad it has worked well for you.

Maybe???, the other user will respond on his reasoning for wanting a 10 Degree offset.

John

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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:04 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:16 pm
Posts: 605
Location: Colorado
Thank you for the clarification. Nothing at all patented or copyright that I know of.. plus anything posted here becomes "prior art" after one year. I think everyone here just posts ideas because of enthusiasm.

I haven't messed with my mount since early in this thread as it seems to overall work well. I have the mount "normal" to the gunwale (ie, 90 degrees) and it seems to work nicely. Prop thrust vector is pretty much straight back. I have my mount more forward just behind the seat and am finding that its nice to have easy access to the throttle when I am motoring into coves. This is a tradeoff as if the outboard is close, you have easier access to the controls and I think also easier to pull start. But.. its louder that close to you and you also need some sort of splash guard to keep wash off the back round hatch (mine is not completely water tight). I motored about 10 miles yesterday and wore head sound protection while motoring. If the outboard was back a little, I probably would not need this.

The one thing that people have done is to raise the bottom of the mount somewhat off the gunwale and I wish I had this but not enough to change what I have.. The reason is that a large enough wave can hit the bottom of the mount where it sticks out and splash you (water was about 57F yesterday..). However, what I have is also just not that bad. I put in around 25 miles yesterday motoring and sailing and did not get splashed once.

This day some friends did a shuttle and launched about 14 miles down the lake and did a super nice down wind run. Their wifes did the shuttle. I just launched at the end point, motored down the lake at about 6 knots and met up with them fairly close to where they launched. Put the outboard up and we all sailed back to where we started which was just under 15 miles of mostly down wind sailing.

All these picture are hosted on FB so will go away after a while..

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:37 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:25 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Seffner, Florida
Hi Walt,

Noting quite like getting a design done right the first time. Your ideas have really created a nice thread that is worth following.

Having the throttle and steering handy to your seated position is really nice, especially when raising/lowering the outboard and during the starting process. The nice thing with these new 4 strokes is they are pretty easy to start. On my former kayak I utilized a variable speed Minn Kota 55Lb. Thrust transom mount trolling motor for power. I cut down the length of the shaft and made several different versions of steering from manual foot pedals to linear actuator electric steering. I mounted the control head of the trolling motor up next to my seat similar to your outboard configuration. It was easy to steer and the throttle control was right next to the seat.

I use my new 2018 Hobie pro angler 14 mostly for fishing the flats here in Central Florida and so far it has been a blast.

Thanks for sharing the pictures, you have some beautiful country out there. Some years back I visited Yellowstone and the Grand Tetons and loved the trip and always wanted to go back

Thanks again for creating a nice thread.

John

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The RIGID RAIL Accessory Mounting System is coming to a Hobie near you soon.

Variable Speed Electra Drive System Designed by: Phil Krug.
https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=62295&p=298578#p298578


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:01 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 3058
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
We have our motors mounted way back on the boat, and typically sit in the front to get as far away from the motors as possible. I have throttle extensions to control the throttles. I had extension ropes on the starters and a line extension I could use to tilt the motors up for a while, but never used em so I removed them. Typically I start the motors when I go out, and just leave them idle if I’m not using them, then only use very low throttle when using them so they are nice and quiet. Very seldom do I shut them off.
Just sharing what we do thats all.
FE


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:25 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Seffner, Florida
Hi FE,

Good deal on the throttle extensions. Do you have any kind of a tether on them in case you accidentally drop it for easy retrieval? One of the guys here in Florida had one on his electric trolling motor and it fell over board and he went in circles for a while until he was able to retrieve it. It was a fun ride. Ha Ha :)

You guys must get some pretty good gas mileage out of those outboards. Do they pretty much run all day long on a tank of gas?

Thanks for sharing your ideas.

John

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Variable Speed Electra Drive System Designed by: Phil Krug.
https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=62295&p=298578#p298578


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:10 pm
Posts: 69
Have 2 weeks use on my tandem island combination motor mount, rod holder, camera, and light mount. After changing out the poly board for a treated wood deck board, the mount is functioning fine, so far. Note, this mount is PVC tubing, filled with wood rod for structural strength.

Design goals:
The mount is set as far rear-ward as possible; allowing storage space behind the seat, allowing opening the rear hatch, and keeping the noice away from me. The motor mount height is set as high as I thought feasible (9 inches above gunnel) to allow use in as shallow water, as possible. Especially important in the Florida Everglades area, where I am doing the testing. It is also designed to allow motor placement to either port or starboard (or allow dual motors). It allows the mainsheet line to be kept low for standard sail shape, yet be kept away from the fishing poles. The rod holders rotate on 2 axis to allow more rod holder/deployment options. It is very quick to remove/insert. In the daytime, I add a GoPro to the top Scottie mount. After dark, I add a led stern light to the Scottie mount.

Biggest Issues:
The mount is heavy compared to lighter weight alloys. I wished to keep expense down, build time up, and retain ease of modification. Even starting from scratch would not waste much money/resources. The weight adds up due to the wood filled tubes and the wooden motor mounting board. I think the wood is a necessary trade-off among weight/safety-longevity.

Most useful specific forum posts:
BobAgain for the his PVC motor mount, that is the basis for this design.
Fusioneng’s idea for using spectra line to hold the motor's moment-arm forces.
Stringy's advice for motor placement/height
MedicineMan’s post for slotting the pvc to allow for it rotation

Operation:
So, far have operated the motor in under 1 foot of water, in over 3 foot seas, against 4 kt tides and 15 kt winds. Per forum posts, I lock the motor in position for straight ahead forward and use the rudder for steering. Tried motor on both port and starboard--mostly use it on starboard side, which allows throttle in right hand and rudder in left hand. If I did not use the rudder for steering, say in water too shallow for the rudder, then I would like put the motor on the port side and operate making steering easier and allowing one-hand operation of throttle/steering.

Forum posts wondered about vibration. It has not been objectionable. However, I only operate up to about 1/4 throttle, as that rpm pushes the kayak at about 4 kts--which meets my goal of pushing through winds/tides. More rpm's offered a lot more noise and gas usage w/o corresponding speed increase.

I attached some motor mount picts and a very short video clip link (from 10,000 islands Florida).

Thanks much to all who post here--very helpful advice.

Image

Image

Image

Image

https://youtu.be/LcBxHWQTink


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:33 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:25 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Seffner, Florida
Hi itiming,

Thanks for the input, pictures and video. Looks like you are ready for some Hobie fun. :)

John

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https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=62295&p=298578#p298578


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:46 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 3058
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
John:
Yea that would suck if I fell overboard. Our throttle extensions were just simple pvc pipes about 4 ft long. I used rubber tubing held onto the throttle grip with a hose clamp. Then a short piece of pvc with a 1/4 hole thru the side held onto the rubber tubing via screws. The long pvc slides inside that short section and is held on by a 1/4” cross pin ( easily removed). The other end of the long pvc has a larger dia section about 4” long screwed in place to form a nice grip to wrap my hands around comfortably. That end is held down to the rear aka cross brace via bungy cord stretched just enough to offer some turning resistance, (so when I set the thottles, they stay in that position). When sitting in the front seat the throttles are at my sides, one on the left and the other on the right. Once set, I very seldom need to touch them. The motors are locked straight, and all steering is with the rudder, though if the rudder were to fail, I can always unlock the motors and steer with the tillers if needed, (my backup if my rudder pin breaks in rough seas, (yea that happens a little too often).

For the deadman switches I drilled a hole in the side of the long pvc then ran paracord, (clipped to the kill switches) thru to the other end opening a couple feet with carabiners that I clip to my life jacket typically, (if I fall off the motors quit, plus I can just tug on them to kill the engines). I also have a tether safety line that I clip to myself when it gets really rough and deadly out there in open ocean. The tether is long enough so I can scamper around on the tramps when needed, the deadman switches are also looped around that tether line so if I did fall overboard while tethered the engines will kill.

I typically start the engines with the nose of the boat on shore, then as I go out and just leave them idle. I stand on the left side of the boat just behind the rear aka, ( you have really good leverage there to back the boat out and spin it around).

Once turned around I walk out to waist deep water, then everyone jumps in the boat, I drop the rudder, then throttle up enough to get away from shore, (sometimes thru surf). Once I’m clear I drop the mirage drive in and start peddling and start opening all my sails as needed.
Keep in mind with twin engines and my super high pitch props and throttles at minimum, (enough rpm to engage the slip clutches on the Honda’s, ( which I don’t like very much)), my boat is traveling at 7-8mph with no sails up at all, (pretty much my minimum speed once the motors warm up, (throttles all the way down) is around 5-6mph. For some reason once the engines get hot the idle goes up and the clutches never disengage completely, you can see them kinda half spinning on and off, I haven’t been able to overcome that one, I hate it but just live with it. If I want to go slower I have to kill one motor.

All the time I’m out I pedal pretty much 95% of the time at around 40-45 cycles per minute (cpm), ( the reason I’m out there is for exercise). I always have my 33 sqft wing jib deployed, which provides some additional horsepower, (via apparent wind generated by my forward motion), then whatever additional power I can generate with the mainsail.
So 90% of the time I’m using the tri-power capabilities of my boat, (aka.. pedal, sail, plus supplimental propulsion).
Because I’m crippled ( broken back) I can’t go out when there is any wind and waves, (has to be really flat water because of my back injury). So if the wind is over about 7mph we stay home, ( fortunately around here 70%-80% of the time the wind is under 7mph). Lol yea I do go out in way worse conditions once in a while, ( up to about 25 mph winds), but am typically laid up for the next couple months afterwards, ( not worth it), the boat handles it all just fine, I’m the problem, lol.

To prove my point about low wind performance simply take your boat out in 3-5 mph winds and put your sail up, the boat sails at 1 mph, then when you peddle you get up to 2-3mph, sure you can peddle much faster but I become exhausted within a mile or two. Don’t take my word for it, try it yourself.
My personal commitment was to pedal my boat at least 10-15 miles per week year round, makes for a really long day at 2mph.

Understanding what we had, and why explains a lot, ( read below), pretty different from everyone else, but it all worked nicely for us, basically configured for our area.

Another really big factor here in Florida and the keys is the heat and sun, it’s blinking hot here, sitting on the boat with no wind is like sitting in a frying pan and your the yoke, (lol). My normal cruise speed is 8-10 mph, so that provides a 15-20 mph wind on my face when underway which keeps us cool, (ie... natural wind plus apparent wind).
We often get between 2-3 hrs of runtime per tank of fuel, I don’t recall the last time we ever had to refuel while out on the water. Obviously if I use more throttle I get no better fuel economy than anyone else, ( pretty typical is 1hr runtime per tank of fuel, ( probably some type of industry standard it seems). Also with just 1 motor, ( and no wing sails) I get about the same speed, distance, and performance as everyone else, I have nothin special. Anymore I just run stock motors.
Our boats average cruise speed was 8-10mph ( regardless of actual wind speed and direction), the boat became exhausting to operate at any higher speeds, sure we always had about 250 sq ft of sail area available over the last 7 yrs or so that we could put out, but I never put it all out anymore, just too dang dangerous, we typically leave the spinnaker hanging in the garage, and don’t bring it along unless we are going way offshore or plan to travel great distances that day, (why bother, the boat is already way too fast without it). However there is nothing more fun in sailing than putting out a giant spinnaker, (fun factor).
It was a fun run and a lot of fun figuring all that stuff out over the last 8 yrs, but my health ( my back injury) has gone down hill and under doctors orders I had to sell the boat. Hopefully if I rest a while I can get another one, ( it’s only a few days work to duplicate what I had if I ever get a new boat, fingers crossed.
No regrets.
FE


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:31 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:25 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Seffner, Florida
Hi fusioneng,

Man! You guys have the best of all worlds. Human Propulsion, Sail Propulsion and Motor Propulsion. Not into sailing myself but admire what you all have done to your Hobie product to give it added pleasure.

I am retired and enjoy the Flats Fishing aspect with my 2018 Hobie Pro Angler 14. I also have a 2007 HAAS TM-1P CNC milling machine and enjoy making items for my marine related items.

Thanks again guys for sharing your Hobie adventures.

John

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The RIGID RAIL Accessory Mounting System is coming to a Hobie near you soon.

Variable Speed Electra Drive System Designed by: Phil Krug.
https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=62295&p=298578#p298578


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:41 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:19 pm
Posts: 17
I read or scanned through most of the posts of this topic. Learned some do's and do not's. Really want a 2.5hp motor mount and planning a version of some of the styles here. Going to use plates mounted to the gunnels for support, but wondering what is the best way to do it. Are you people just using screws, well nuts, or through bolting to a plate below? Hate to drill any hole, but.... I will not go on the ocean without a motor. If wind dies out, it would be too much to paddle/peddle current in some of the places.


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