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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:54 pm 
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Location: Jaco, Costa Rica
walt wrote:
CR Yaker, what is the silicone fix for the water coming in the rear control lines? Just inject some silicone into the holes and on the cables? When I did that over 20 mile trip in the video I posted earlier, I had maybe 1 to 1.5 quart of water in the boat after the trip and it was windy most of the time.. which wasn’t all that bad but I wouldn’t mind reducing that.

Yes, Walt, this is exactly what I did, inject the silicone directly into the line hole from outside the hull. Occasionally move the lines when drying to keep free. My lines are missing the grommets. Made a big difference. I think your always going to get some water in the hull, 1.5 quarts for a whole day is acceptable in my book.

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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:41 pm 
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CR Yacker, I think I will do the same with the silicone.

Herbaldew, interesting about the Torqeedo 1003 - and your peak speed of about 7 mph (with the thrust off angle some). The one time I was somewhat careful measuring my peak speed I was at 4870 ft elevation (I thought this lake was at 4000 but when I checked it was a little higher). This is with the 2.5 hp Suzuki and I was hitting about 7.7 mph peak (6.6 knots) and around 6.6 mph at 1/2 throttle (5.7 knots). At sea level I could expect a little higher speeds but have not measured this. The peak speed you saw of around 7 mph is between my 1/2 and full throttle speeds. The 1000 watts power the 1003 is using is 1.34 hp.

So this
Quote:
static thrust figures: Honda 2.3 - 66, Torqeedo T1003 - 68, Suzuki 2.5 - 83
sort of looks about what we are seeing? The claim of "works like a 3 hp" might have been influenced a little by the Torqeedo marketing department???

FYI, the Suzuki outboard isnt that loud but if you are sitting right next to it (like I have setup) - it is really annoying and maybe dangerously load in the ear next to the outboard. I bought some sound reducing head gear from the hardware store for the next time I go out. Bob sits up front away from the outboards and I would guess can hardly hear them running.

Sort of interesting to compare the capacity of the gas outboard to electric.. I got about 9 miles of motoring at 5.7 knots (6.6 mph) with the Suzuki at 1/2 throttle. If I assume this was about 1.34 hp (or 1000 watts) for the 1/2 throttle and the one quart tank lasted 1.36 hours, the equivalent "Watt * hours" capacity of 1 quart of gas is 1000 watts * 1.36 hours = 1360 watt hours.

The Torqeedo 1003 battery has a capacity of 532 watt hours. This means that the one quart of gas in the Suzuki internal tank has the same capacity as 2.5 of the Torqeedo batteries. It also means that the one gallon tank plus 20 oz tank plus internal 1 quart tank for the gas setup has the same capacity of about 14 of the Torqeedo batteries.


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:57 pm 
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Bob, I think the solar panel on the boat in the video was about 140 watts? If you were able to use all the power from the panel, that is about .19 hp. My 15 foot sailing dingy with the 30 pound thrust electric trolling motor (which I estimate is using about 300 watts) gets up to about 3 knots full speed. I would guess you would get 2 to 3 knots with the TI just running on that 140 watt panel. Partial shading really cuts the power of a panel and is a problem with a sail overhead but the TI might be a great boat to replace tramps with solar panels. Maybe even get up to 500 watts of solar? A complete guess of speed again but maybe that much power would sustain 4 or even more knots speed? Add the pedal and sailing and it might be somewhat fast (as long as the sun is shinning) without trying to bring along a lot of battery capacity.

FYI, I love all the boats in that video!

Thinking about that solar TI idea a little.. maybe you could get 250 watts of solar on each side of the boat (500 watts total). I would go with that 1000 watt Torqeedo that works with an external 24 volt battery. Each of the 250 watt panel sets would have its own maximum power point controller (such as the Genasun), each controller charging the 24 volt battery. This would be the best way to deal with the partial shading that would likey occur on one of the two panel sets at any time. The battery would not need to be that big, maybe 1000 to 2000 watt hours. You would not really be trying to charge the battery or store much energy, mostly just use it as you generate it with a little reserve.


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:40 pm 
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Location: North carolina
I was not able to setup my motor mount the way I described it in my previous post as my welder backout. So I ended up assembling it with what's available in the scrap yard.
Here it is. I have the honda 2.3 long shaft. Will test this weekend.

Image

Image

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:56 pm 
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looks good!

If its not rigid enough, I like this nice big lever arm that CR Yacker has (the beam going towards the rear of the boat). I think that lever arm probably really handles all the rotation forces the outboard can put on things.. I like this better than what I did.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:17 am 
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Location: North carolina
Preliminary testing on land shows not rigid enough.
I'll make some revisions and additional support similar to CR Yacker mount.

Is there a Hobie wish list where we can share our suggestions to Hobie.

Anyways here's my first 3.

- Hobie motor mount and a more solid hull to accommodate this.
- Hobie TI/AI that is harder to capsize.
- capsize recovery device or attachments.


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:16 am 
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Posts: 3005
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Nap:
The rotational torque on any of these outboards (and trolling motors) is pretty big, you have two choices, you can either super over-design the motor mount, or you can do like I did and just tie a piece of spectra string (that's that grey 700 lb test grey Hobie rudder line) midway down the shaft attached to a clip that clips to the rear of the boat (where the rudder bungy's go). That string takes all the rotational force created by the motor. I have the same exact piece of string and clip on my TI that I have been running for 5 yrs now, and it's still going strong (simple cheap, easy, and only weighs a ounce or so). When you tip the motor up it just pulls out of the way, if you remove the motor you just unclip the clip.
Hope this helps.


Bob


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:50 am 
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Thank you FE, I'll add a line too as you described. I'll start with an overkill design and start simplifying it as I gain more knowledge about the motor. Thanks again for the feedback.


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:54 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:25 pm
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Location: Jaco, Costa Rica
walt wrote:

If its not rigid enough, I like this nice big lever arm that CR Yacker has (the beam going towards the rear of the boat). I think that lever arm probably really handles all the rotation forces the outboard can put on things.. I like this better than what I did.



Hi Walt, that's not a lever arm, I should have mentioned it's just a splash guard to keep any water out of the well. Those 4 trussed aluminum brackets with back plating, are plenty rigid enough to keep the Honda 2.3 in a fixed location. As Bob mentioned, I overkilled on the mount so as to not have to worry about the twisting.

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Tandem Island- 2013
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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:42 am 
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Location: Fairfax, CA USA
on my AI i used a track, then swapped the cleats for the bungies in the well for the looped ones. Then used a stainless turnbuckle to attach the outboard mount.

Used to do it on the old AI, just finished it for AI2. Will take some pics this afternoon and post.


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:58 am 
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Quote:
Hi Walt, that's not a lever arm,


He he.. I saw that and though it was a good idea as a lever arm.. maybe you could call it a combination lever arm PLUS splash guard!

When I first built the rack I did, I had a metal "lever arm" going out the rear to handle the outboard torque when it was pushing the boat forward. After I made this and had the outboard on the rack, I discovered that I also needed to worry about the torque from the outboard just wanting to swing forward when its out of the water (like for sailing). So I added the extra line and pad eye (with backing plate inside the hull). But after doing all of this, it occured to me that a single rigid bar going to the back that attached to the hull would nicely handle the rotation torque both when the outboard was in the water plus when it is out of the water. Ill post this picture again to illistrate

Image

Also I think this is Chopcats drawing (I will link to it again below) but it also would handle the rotation torque in both directions

Image


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:14 am 
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Here's what I will test tomorrow. Looks rigid than previous one. And will also add a line holding/pulling the shaft as FE suggested. The only thing I don't like is the tiller is not in an easy access position. Well I might copy FE tiller extension and just sit in front.

My only remaining question is do I need to remove or adjust something in the outboard so I don't have to apply force putting the shaft in up position. Second picture shows a plastic arm that holds the shaft and you need to apply little force to release the shaft. Do I need to remove this plastic arm?
1.
Image

2
Second picture showing what holds the shaft making it a little difficult to put up the shaft.
Image

3. I saw this umbrella holder I used in the boat I recently sold.

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 5:39 am 
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Location: Fairfax, CA USA
Here's a pic of what I have on the new AI. On the old one I had the mount up against the aka crossbar, and the turnbuckle was going to the cleat on the seat side of the crossbar. Here I moved it back to the ones just in front of the rear hatch. The rear is an 8" gear track, with some right angle galvanized braced. Just picked up some angle aluminum to fab the right angle braces, just haven't gotten to that as yet

Image


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 7:02 am 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Nap:
You kind of need to keep that plastic keeper that holds the motor down while underway, otherwise the force of the water moving tilts your motor up when you back off on the throttle (a bad thing I suspect), Especially when power-sailing (which is what I do 99% of the time when using the motors). My whole goal on everything is to go as fast as possible in low wind conditions (because it is blinking hot down here in Florida) at maximum fuel economy (so I can go have fun all day for about a buck in fuel). So we can get to our destination as quickly as possible so we can jump out of the boat and into the water where it's cool, or go into a bar or restaurant with air conditioning out of the relentless sun.
Bob


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 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 11:56 am 
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I would think the "trussed" aluminum brackets that CR used add a lot of strenght compared to just the simple angle brakets. That truss probably makes those very rigid. But... I have no idea where you would buy those.


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