Return to Hobie.com

Hobie Forums

It is currently Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:20 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 349 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 20, 21, 22, 23, 24  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:37 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:25 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Seffner, Florida
Hi Walt,

Noting quite like getting a design done right the first time. Your ideas have really created a nice thread that is worth following.

Having the throttle and steering handy to your seated position is really nice, especially when raising/lowering the outboard and during the starting process. The nice thing with these new 4 strokes is they are pretty easy to start. On my former kayak I utilized a variable speed Minn Kota 55Lb. Thrust transom mount trolling motor for power. I cut down the length of the shaft and made several different versions of steering from manual foot pedals to linear actuator electric steering. I mounted the control head of the trolling motor up next to my seat similar to your outboard configuration. It was easy to steer and the throttle control was right next to the seat.

I use my new 2018 Hobie pro angler 14 mostly for fishing the flats here in Central Florida and so far it has been a blast.

Thanks for sharing the pictures, you have some beautiful country out there. Some years back I visited Yellowstone and the Grand Tetons and loved the trip and always wanted to go back

Thanks again for creating a nice thread.

John

_________________
The RIGID RAIL Accessory Mounting System is coming to a Hobie near you soon.

Variable Speed Electra Drive System Designed by: Phil Krug.
https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=62295&p=298578#p298578


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:01 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 2931
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
We have our motors mounted way back on the boat, and typically sit in the front to get as far away from the motors as possible. I have throttle extensions to control the throttles. I had extension ropes on the starters and a line extension I could use to tilt the motors up for a while, but never used em so I removed them. Typically I start the motors when I go out, and just leave them idle if I’m not using them, then only use very low throttle when using them so they are nice and quiet. Very seldom do I shut them off.
Just sharing what we do thats all.
FE


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:15 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:25 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Seffner, Florida
Hi FE,

Good deal on the throttle extensions. Do you have any kind of a tether on them in case you accidentally drop it for easy retrieval? One of the guys here in Florida had one on his electric trolling motor and it fell over board and he went in circles for a while until he was able to retrieve it. It was a fun ride. Ha Ha :)

You guys must get some pretty good gas mileage out of those outboards. Do they pretty much run all day long on a tank of gas?

Thanks for sharing your ideas.

John

_________________
The RIGID RAIL Accessory Mounting System is coming to a Hobie near you soon.

Variable Speed Electra Drive System Designed by: Phil Krug.
https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=62295&p=298578#p298578


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:30 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:10 pm
Posts: 24
Have 2 weeks use on my tandem island combination motor mount, rod holder, camera, and light mount. After changing out the poly board for a treated wood deck board, the mount is functioning fine, so far. Note, this mount is PVC tubing, filled with wood rod for structural strength.

Design goals:
The mount is set as far rear-ward as possible; allowing storage space behind the seat, allowing opening the rear hatch, and keeping the noice away from me. The motor mount height is set as high as I thought feasible (9 inches above gunnel) to allow use in as shallow water, as possible. Especially important in the Florida Everglades area, where I am doing the testing. It is also designed to allow motor placement to either port or starboard (or allow dual motors). It allows the mainsheet line to be kept low for standard sail shape, yet be kept away from the fishing poles. The rod holders rotate on 2 axis to allow more rod holder/deployment options. It is very quick to remove/insert. In the daytime, I add a GoPro to the top Scottie mount. After dark, I add a led stern light to the Scottie mount.

Biggest Issues:
The mount is heavy compared to lighter weight alloys. I wished to keep expense down, build time up, and retain ease of modification. Even starting from scratch would not waste much money/resources. The weight adds up due to the wood filled tubes and the wooden motor mounting board. I think the wood is a necessary trade-off among weight/safety-longevity.

Most useful specific forum posts:
BobAgain for the his PVC motor mount, that is the basis for this design.
Fusioneng’s idea for using spectra line to hold the motor's moment-arm forces.
Stringy's advice for motor placement/height
MedicineMan’s post for slotting the pvc to allow for it rotation

Operation:
So, far have operated the motor in under 1 foot of water, in over 3 foot seas, against 4 kt tides and 15 kt winds. Per forum posts, I lock the motor in position for straight ahead forward and use the rudder for steering. Tried motor on both port and starboard--mostly use it on starboard side, which allows throttle in right hand and rudder in left hand. If I did not use the rudder for steering, say in water too shallow for the rudder, then I would like put the motor on the port side and operate making steering easier and allowing one-hand operation of throttle/steering.

Forum posts wondered about vibration. It has not been objectionable. However, I only operate up to about 1/4 throttle, as that rpm pushes the kayak at about 4 kts--which meets my goal of pushing through winds/tides. More rpm's offered a lot more noise and gas usage w/o corresponding speed increase.

I attached some motor mount picts and a very short video clip link (from 10,000 islands Florida).

Thanks much to all who post here--very helpful advice.

Image

Image

Image

Image

https://youtu.be/LcBxHWQTink


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:33 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:25 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Seffner, Florida
Hi itiming,

Thanks for the input, pictures and video. Looks like you are ready for some Hobie fun. :)

John

_________________
The RIGID RAIL Accessory Mounting System is coming to a Hobie near you soon.

Variable Speed Electra Drive System Designed by: Phil Krug.
https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=62295&p=298578#p298578


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:46 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 2931
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
John:
Yea that would suck if I fell overboard. Our throttle extensions were just simple pvc pipes about 4 ft long. I used rubber tubing held onto the throttle grip with a hose clamp. Then a short piece of pvc with a 1/4 hole thru the side held onto the rubber tubing via screws. The long pvc slides inside that short section and is held on by a 1/4” cross pin ( easily removed). The other end of the long pvc has a larger dia section about 4” long screwed in place to form a nice grip to wrap my hands around comfortably. That end is held down to the rear aka cross brace via bungy cord stretched just enough to offer some turning resistance, (so when I set the thottles, they stay in that position). When sitting in the front seat the throttles are at my sides, one on the left and the other on the right. Once set, I very seldom need to touch them. The motors are locked straight, and all steering is with the rudder, though if the rudder were to fail, I can always unlock the motors and steer with the tillers if needed, (my backup if my rudder pin breaks in rough seas, (yea that happens a little too often).

For the deadman switches I drilled a hole in the side of the long pvc then ran paracord, (clipped to the kill switches) thru to the other end opening a couple feet with carabiners that I clip to my life jacket typically, (if I fall off the motors quit, plus I can just tug on them to kill the engines). I also have a tether safety line that I clip to myself when it gets really rough and deadly out there in open ocean. The tether is long enough so I can scamper around on the tramps when needed, the deadman switches are also looped around that tether line so if I did fall overboard while tethered the engines will kill.

I typically start the engines with the nose of the boat on shore, then as I go out and just leave them idle. I stand on the left side of the boat just behind the rear aka, ( you have really good leverage there to back the boat out and spin it around).

Once turned around I walk out to waist deep water, then everyone jumps in the boat, I drop the rudder, then throttle up enough to get away from shore, (sometimes thru surf). Once I’m clear I drop the mirage drive in and start peddling and start opening all my sails as needed.
Keep in mind with twin engines and my super high pitch props and throttles at minimum, (enough rpm to engage the slip clutches on the Honda’s, ( which I don’t like very much)), my boat is traveling at 7-8mph with no sails up at all, (pretty much my minimum speed once the motors warm up, (throttles all the way down) is around 5-6mph. For some reason once the engines get hot the idle goes up and the clutches never disengage completely, you can see them kinda half spinning on and off, I haven’t been able to overcome that one, I hate it but just live with it. If I want to go slower I have to kill one motor.

All the time I’m out I pedal pretty much 95% of the time at around 40-45 cycles per minute (cpm), ( the reason I’m out there is for exercise). I always have my 33 sqft wing jib deployed, which provides some additional horsepower, (via apparent wind generated by my forward motion), then whatever additional power I can generate with the mainsail.
So 90% of the time I’m using the tri-power capabilities of my boat, (aka.. pedal, sail, plus supplimental propulsion).
Because I’m crippled ( broken back) I can’t go out when there is any wind and waves, (has to be really flat water because of my back injury). So if the wind is over about 7mph we stay home, ( fortunately around here 70%-80% of the time the wind is under 7mph). Lol yea I do go out in way worse conditions once in a while, ( up to about 25 mph winds), but am typically laid up for the next couple months afterwards, ( not worth it), the boat handles it all just fine, I’m the problem, lol.

To prove my point about low wind performance simply take your boat out in 3-5 mph winds and put your sail up, the boat sails at 1 mph, then when you peddle you get up to 2-3mph, sure you can peddle much faster but I become exhausted within a mile or two. Don’t take my word for it, try it yourself.
My personal commitment was to pedal my boat at least 10-15 miles per week year round, makes for a really long day at 2mph.

Understanding what we had, and why explains a lot, ( read below), pretty different from everyone else, but it all worked nicely for us, basically configured for our area.

Another really big factor here in Florida and the keys is the heat and sun, it’s blinking hot here, sitting on the boat with no wind is like sitting in a frying pan and your the yoke, (lol). My normal cruise speed is 8-10 mph, so that provides a 15-20 mph wind on my face when underway which keeps us cool, (ie... natural wind plus apparent wind).
We often get between 2-3 hrs of runtime per tank of fuel, I don’t recall the last time we ever had to refuel while out on the water. Obviously if I use more throttle I get no better fuel economy than anyone else, ( pretty typical is 1hr runtime per tank of fuel, ( probably some type of industry standard it seems). Also with just 1 motor, ( and no wing sails) I get about the same speed, distance, and performance as everyone else, I have nothin special. Anymore I just run stock motors.
Our boats average cruise speed was 8-10mph ( regardless of actual wind speed and direction), the boat became exhausting to operate at any higher speeds, sure we always had about 250 sq ft of sail area available over the last 7 yrs or so that we could put out, but I never put it all out anymore, just too dang dangerous, we typically leave the spinnaker hanging in the garage, and don’t bring it along unless we are going way offshore or plan to travel great distances that day, (why bother, the boat is already way too fast without it). However there is nothing more fun in sailing than putting out a giant spinnaker, (fun factor).
It was a fun run and a lot of fun figuring all that stuff out over the last 8 yrs, but my health ( my back injury) has gone down hill and under doctors orders I had to sell the boat. Hopefully if I rest a while I can get another one, ( it’s only a few days work to duplicate what I had if I ever get a new boat, fingers crossed.
No regrets.
FE


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:31 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:25 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Seffner, Florida
Hi fusioneng,

Man! You guys have the best of all worlds. Human Propulsion, Sail Propulsion and Motor Propulsion. Not into sailing myself but admire what you all have done to your Hobie product to give it added pleasure.

I am retired and enjoy the Flats Fishing aspect with my 2018 Hobie Pro Angler 14. I also have a 2007 HAAS TM-1P CNC milling machine and enjoy making items for my marine related items.

Thanks again guys for sharing your Hobie adventures.

John

_________________
The RIGID RAIL Accessory Mounting System is coming to a Hobie near you soon.

Variable Speed Electra Drive System Designed by: Phil Krug.
https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=62295&p=298578#p298578


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:41 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:19 pm
Posts: 4
I read or scanned through most of the posts of this topic. Learned some do's and do not's. Really want a 2.5hp motor mount and planning a version of some of the styles here. Going to use plates mounted to the gunnels for support, but wondering what is the best way to do it. Are you people just using screws, well nuts, or through bolting to a plate below? Hate to drill any hole, but.... I will not go on the ocean without a motor. If wind dies out, it would be too much to paddle/peddle current in some of the places.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:12 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:13 pm
Posts: 309
YakYakallday wrote:
I read or scanned through most of the posts of this topic. Learned some do's and do not's. Really want a 2.5hp motor mount and planning a version of some of the styles here. Going to use plates mounted to the gunnels for support, but wondering what is the best way to do it. Are you people just using screws, well nuts, or through bolting to a plate below? Hate to drill any hole, but.... I will not go on the ocean without a motor. If wind dies out, it would be too much to paddle/peddle current in some of the places.

Just use this. It mounts easily and is so strong you can lift the entire boat with it. It also has the advantage of being a valuable addition to the TI if you decide to sell it later without the motor mount.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:45 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 2931
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
If I ever do any mods on a new boat, ( I sold mine last fall), I’m gonna use those mounts for everything, very practical for most anything I can dream up.
FE


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:15 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 2729
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
YakYakallday wrote:
Are you people just using screws, well nuts, or through bolting to a plate below?


The outboard mount should be through bolted. I used M6 stainless channel nuts, which are a good fit in the gunwale and don't require holding with a spanner when tightening.
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:50 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:17 pm
Posts: 415
Location: Austin Texas
I also used the 12" Yakattack Gear Trac but opted for the tapped backing plate rather than nuts and washers. I put butyl tape under the Trac then cleaned up what squeezed out after tightening the nuts. Anti-Sieze compound on the screws. I like these so much I put one on the rear crossbar for my compass and may add them above the mesh pockets to attach other stuff to.

Chris


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:55 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:19 pm
Posts: 4
The yak gear won't be suitable for what I have made, but will make a backer and through hole bolt the plate I do have as soon as I build up the courage. After all its not like drilling a cheap $500 yak because who cares about that! Thanks for info.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:28 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:38 pm
Posts: 18
Location: Pennsylvania - Philly Area
Following the design ideas for a Hobie TI outboard motor mount from pro10is and domr.

I made a few tweaks for overall strength in ocean / offshore environments.

The main design concepts remain:
- track mount
- use of full plate under the 12 in track mount

Tweaks:
- Beefed up the Aluminum components 2" square tubing, 1/4" thick, 1 1/2" squire tubing 1/8" thick - (purpose overall strength)
- Slightly elevated mount (due to the 1 1/2" square tubing on top of the track) - (purpose keep free of waves)
- Use of six attachment points between the mount and the track - (purpose - added redundancy & strength)

Outboard: Suzuki 2.5 HP four stroke, short shaft.

Performance: Pleased with the overall results. Have about 35 hours of offshore sailing (Atlantic Ocean, Gulf of Mexico, Hudson River NYC, Delaware River Port of Philadelphia). Typical speeds with 1/4 throttle are in the 5-6 mph and get about 7-8 mph with half to 3/4 throttle. Good overall duration with Suzuki internal gas tank with over 1.5 hour run time (depends on throttle level). Pleased with the power & speed especially fighting strong tidal and river currents or pushing into strong head winds. Used with all-day sails running 8-10 hours with distance traveled in the 30-40 mile range. The vibration and noise are present but less than I expected and fully bearable. The mount was sturdy under the offshore conditions - all bolts and attachments show no signs of failure or loosening.

Thanks to all the ideas posted on this thread and other threads....big help in pulling this design together.

See a few photos, a video walk around the TI outboard mount and a couple links below to sails with the outboard (mostly sailing though!).

ImageHobie Tandem Island Outboard Motor Mount by Jim Powers, on Flickr

ImageHobie Tandem Island Outboard Motor Mount by Jim Powers, on Flickr

ImageHobie Tandem Island Outboard Motor Mount by Jim Powers, on Flickr

ImageHobie Tandem Island Outboard Motor Mount by Jim Powers, on Flickr

More photos here in this flickr album: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmdYB5q1

Youtube video - TI motor mount: https://youtu.be/SUyqkqqZbkU

Youtube videos - TI undersail / power with TI motor mount and Suzuki 2.5 HP outboard:
- https://youtu.be/WrwF71p_jVA
- https://youtu.be/WAhnawtgt3U

_________________
Jim
Hobie TI 2016
Hobie AI 2015 - sold
Hobie Rev 13 2014
Hobie Outback - 2008 - sold


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TI outboard mount
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:38 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:13 pm
Posts: 309
Nice work!!

That mount should serve you well for the life of the boat.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 349 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 20, 21, 22, 23, 24  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
© Hobie Cat Company. All rights reserved.
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group