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Out of the box ideas for "hardening" AKA's for offshore use
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Author:  s9utct [ Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Out of the box ideas for "hardening" AKA's for offshore

As a fellow noobie I installed my tramps for the first time in the garage just yesterday to see how everything fits together. Is the extra rigging for the aka collapse required if using the trampolines?

With the tramps installed I could only collapse the akas about 6 inches. Are the tramps strong enough to prevent the full collapse and potential capsize if the pin breaks under sail?

Author:  pro10is [ Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Out of the box ideas for "hardening" AKA's for offshore

The tramps should help in the event of a aka collapse unless they themselves are damaged. I would still recommend keep out lines just to be sure. Also, I find I don't always deploy my tramps as it takes extra time so it's good to have a backup.

Author:  stringy [ Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Out of the box ideas for "hardening" AKA's for offshore

s9utct wrote:
Are the tramps strong enough to prevent the full collapse and potential capsize if the pin breaks under sail?

In my experience yes.
In 10 years of AI/TI sailing with tramps I’ve never broken an aka brace bar pin with the tramps fitted. I’ve never had a capsize either.
Two pin breaks on my AI’s occurred without tramps, with beginners sailing them and colliding with each other. Neither resulted in a capsize and both accidents were in strong winds so a broken pin does not necessarily mean instant capsize. Both managed to sail back to the beach and replace the pin.



Fusioneng has reported breaking tramp buckles in a collision, but his TI is highly modified.

It’s important to know that a capsize can occur with a broken brace bar pin. Being forewarned you can prepare accordingly with keep out lines or tramps, but it is not a given. Capsizes are extremely rare with these craft.

Author:  Chekika [ Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Out of the box ideas for "hardening" AKA's for offshore

Stringy, I note in that video, your ama/aka never folds in fully along the hull, apparently because the paddle in its holder prevented it. If you had been sailing on a 180 deg tack and the opposite aka/ama brace pin broke, your aka/ama may have folded all the way and a capsize might have occurred. All conjecture, of course.

It absolutely makes sense, that some kind of preventative, tramps or keep-out lines, is needed to prevent capsize in case of the brace pin breaking.

Keith

Author:  stringy [ Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Out of the box ideas for "hardening" AKA's for offshore

Chekika wrote:
It absolutely makes sense, that some kind of preventative, tramps or keep-out lines, is needed to prevent capsize in case of the brace pin breaking.
Keith


Agreed Keith.
New owners should be made aware that the brace bar pin breaking is the major cause of potential capsize with these craft and be encouraged to fit keep out lines or tramps.
In the video, the reason the bar didn’t collapse backwards was that the operator (not me, one of my workmates) was holding the collapsed aka and pushing it forward. He was in my AI and did very well on his maiden voyage!

Author:  tonystott [ Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Out of the box ideas for "hardening" AKA's for offshore

I can't help thinking this is getting a bit out of hand...

"Keep out lines" in some form (basically running diagonally back from hull to outer aka end), will prevent instant capsize if a sheer pin breaks. (you can always fit the new upgraded aka inner ends from Hobie instead or as well)

Small lines tying the inner ends of each aka to its mate on the other side of the hull will prevent disengagement of either aka from hull.

BOTH problem fixed for under $10!

All done, time for a coffee.

Author:  fusioneng [ Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Out of the box ideas for "hardening" AKA's for offshore

I agree with Tony, we don’t need to design a new solution, that’s Hobie’s responsability, just a simple rope does the trick and only takes all of five minutes one time to install, (for the life of the boat, (my ropes and clips are 8 yrs old, whenever we buy a new boat we just transfer them to the new boat).
It takes all of 30 seconds to clip the clips on when you setup, when done we just unclip our clips and stuff our ropes into the mesh pocket for storage.
When we are on small lakes and safe areas, we don’t bother hooking them up, ( no need), you only need them offshore and dangerous conditions really.
No need to overthink this in my opinion.
We just use 3/16” cheap rope from walmart and a couple stainless D rings (2” from home depot). We tie a slip knot on one end of the rope ( like a hangmans noose), slip it over the front AKA hull brace where it attaches to the hull. Now clip the D-ring to the carry handle on the AMA, ( the handle is plenty strong). Then open the AMA and lock it open, now just pull the other end of the rope thru the D ring and tie it off, we use a clove hitch knot. You only need to do all this just one time, (takes all of 5 minutes). Afterwhich the rope stays on the boat forever, just stuffed in the mesh pocket when not being used. We only ever hook ours up when in rough conditions,offshore (easy to clip on even when your already out if conditions go bad).
It’s pretty easy to test, just unhook the aka brace and pull the ama back, it shouldn’t fold in more than halfway, next unclip the front aka bar and try to slide it out, it shouldn’t come out more than halfway.
This fix doesn’t prevent the aka sheer bolts from breaking, or does it prevent the aka bars from coming unclipped and try to slide out. It just keeps the boat from flipping, when this stuff does happen, ( happens all the time to us).
Hope this helps
FE

Author:  tonystott [ Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Out of the box ideas for "hardening" AKA's for offshore

Old thread, but worth revisiting!

There are two main scenarios we want to avoid if at all possible.
(1) folding in an ama unexpectedly, and
(2) disconnecting an aka from the main hull or from an ama

Fortunately, these catastrophes can be avoided for minimal cost or effort.
(1) “Keep out lines”. Rig diagonal lines back from hull to outer end of aka. This could be as simple as a dyneema line (Hobie rudder line material), or even cheap stretchy nylon line from the hardware store, running from the front crossbar mounts to a loop over the button on the outside of the rear aka. (Some prefer to run a line from the bow to the front aka outer end instead)

(2) There are potentially THREE separate issues at the ends of each aka…
• While newer Islands have updated joiners connecting aka to crossbar, you can fix ANY model by running a small dyneema loop around the top of the aka hinge pin and clipping it to the cleat under the middle of the crossbar. You will then need to disconnect this safety line if removing the aka from the hull (instead of just folding the hulls together, as many people do)

• While later Islands have fitted double bungees to prevent the aka coming out of the ama mounting hole, you can easily modify earlier models as shown in the photo. Just hook the shackle over the button. You get to determine how much tension you want to add by setting the length of the bungees (they have a knot inside each ama deck fitting)

• The real lifesaver is a dyneema loop (yes, I DO love the stuff!) which you attach to an aka button, while the bottom end has a washer attached, to prevent it coming up through the bungee cords. This dyneema loop is strong enough to take your weight, even without the bungees! That ama ain’t comin’ off!
Image

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