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Going to Weather in brutally Strong wind?
http://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=51895		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  Chekika [ Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Going to Weather in brutally Strong wind?
Ron, I plan to be up near the Canadian border with our AIs this summer. Have you done much sailing up there? Where?

Keith
Author:  Tom Kirkman [ Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Going to Weather in brutally Strong wind?
I sail with both 1 and 2 people on board routinely. The boat is a little slower with 2, but actually goes to weather a little bit better as overall trim is better with 2 in higher winds.

As you furl the sail more and more, you move the center of effort further in front of the daggerboard. This causes lee helm which you end up fighting with the rudder, which then starts to act like somewhat of a brake. Beyond a certain point, furling will give up too much power and what's left creates lee helm. That's why I said you have to find the right balance between amount of sail and boat trim, and hopefully still get a little weather helm, to do what you want to do. With 2 people this is easier, but it's not impossible with 1.

We have some very large lakes and bays around here. I've had the TI in 4 feet of chop and swells and in 35+ MPH winds. One of the reasons I developed the twin bungee yoke for the ama retention system is to keep the amas from coming off the akas when the boat is rolling and slamming down in deep swells. I can get to my destination even if it lies upwind in very heavy winds. I hardly even bother taking the Islands out anymore unless the wind is above 20+MPH (or I'm fishing). These aren't great light wind boats. They are outstanding heavy wind boats, in my opinion.
Author:  fusioneng [ Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Going to Weather in brutally Strong wind?
I think tom hit the nail on the head describing the TI's , in very light winds your better off in something like an h16 or f18, in very light winds they are still quite capable where unless your willing to pedal (a lot) you just not going to get anywhere at any speed with a TI in very light wind (were talking 3-5 mph speeds in light winds. But as soon as the wind gets over 10 mph the boat literally comes alive and the fun factor goes way up. Around here there are many AI/TI's but most tend to stay home when it's light conditions, I'm usually the only one out there in those conditions because my TI is highly modified with massive sails specifically for those light conditions. Actually my setup kind of wrecks my TI's ability to handle the heavy conditions well so I tend to stay home if the wind are over 12 mph, ( which is seriously only a few times each year around here).
I think one reason I chose the TI is because it has probably the widest range of capability over most other small boats out there ...... 'no wind, no problem' to 20 mph+ 'why am I out here' conditions. I used to have a sunfish and it was quite miserable in anything over 15 mph winds (simply not fun). Where as tom describes correctly the TI is just coming alive.
However everyone has to realize the AI/TI only has a 'C' rating (look on the CE hull label) so if your planning to take a TI off shore in rougher conditions you have some serious hardening to do to the boat to prepare it for open water unless you want to flounder out there. I often take my TI off shore but never into such conditions on purpose. But have found from experience that those conditions can sneak up on you in a heartbeat especially in south Florida and the keys ( where I mostly sail). So it's a pretty good idea in my opinion to harden your boat and alway carry the required coast guard safety equipment (and make sure it all works). The CG is very specific about required safety equipment on any boat going more than two miles from shore, and they will board you and make you come in if you don't have the correct stuff out there. Keep in mind as they described to me, they are putting themselves in danger if they have to come out and save me. Also it's a really big if that they will find you in time. That's one reason I only go out to popular areas with lots of other boats around just in case. If there are no other boats out there I tend to stay very close to shore, unless there are multiple boats in the group (safety in numbers).
Just my 2 cents.
Bob
Author:  ronholm [ Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Going to Weather in brutally Strong wind?
Chekika wrote:
Ron, I plan to be up near the Canadian border with our AIs this summer. Have you done much sailing up there? Where?

Keith



NW Ontario near Ignace. I try to make a yearly week long trip just missing it every once in a while. I have had the H16 up there a couple times, but it is more of a fishing trip.. So the first time up last year with the AI was awesome. To be honest I didn't think much of the boat, didn't really want to buy it, but the wife told me I could use it in Canada if I bought her one... My perspective changed on that trip, what a great little machine for exactly what I was doing..


Here.. unedited tour of my way from Camp to the takeout.. Raining.. and loving every minute of it..


http://youtu.be/zOMDsGXJFs0

http://youtu.be/gXBYvQcpqFY

http://youtu.be/VEdv5tVc5-E

http://youtu.be/3we-Oalo_Fk
Author:  Hobie Crafte [ Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Going to Weather in brutally Strong wind?
I was sailing in pretty tough circumstances in lake Mälaren, Sweden, and managed to turn my TI upside down. The wind was probably only about 8 m/s, but the waves might have been 4 or 5 feet, and had a high frequency. Too tough for the boat, I guess, but I had real fun!
Author:  majorkahuna [ Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Going to Weather in brutally Strong wind?
I have sailed on Lake Tahoe in 35mph+ winds. I cut my teeth sailing large boats on SF Bay so this was not a new experience for me. Sailing down wind or a beam reach was incredible and very fast. Once I made the decision to return, I seemed to have forgotten the lack of a Jib would limit my ability to point into the wind. I tacked about a mile on each tack for about an hour making about 150 yards of progress per tack. No amount of reefing adjustment seemed to make any difference other than the stability of the kayak. Fortunately we have our Mirage drives. Fully retracting the sail, my wife and I kicked into full power pedaling and were able to make a couple of knots against the wind and waves (about 4 feet high). It took us about an hour hugging the shore to return to the marina channel. I think in those conditions I will stick to a beam reach and sail like I would a sailboard, unless I am going one way. If I had to have paddled I would have beached the kayak and waited out the winds. Thank you Hobie!
Author:  tonystott [ Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Going to Weather in brutally Strong wind?
Hobie Crafte wrote:
I was sailing in pretty tough circumstances in lake Mälaren, Sweden, and managed to turn my TI upside down. The wind was probably only about 8 m/s, but the waves might have been 4 or 5 feet, and had a high frequency. Too tough for the boat, I guess, but I had real fun!
As turning a TI upside down is not commonly reported here, can you please describe just what happened, so we can all benefit from your experience? Glad you are able to tell the story !!
Author:  Hobie Crafte [ Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Going to Weather in brutally Strong wind?
Here is what I wrote in a topic with the headline "Water in the mast":

"Well, I was out in really rough water to test the boat. Waves in lake Mälaren have a pretty short wave length which may make a turn around more likely. I was going with the wind but probably about 30 degrees to the starboard. Winds were probably only 7-9 m/s but the waves were high. Before the boat turned around it felt like the boat was floaded. There were lots of water on both sides, but the boat felt completely stable. But then it lay itself on it's side, in a not very dramatic way. Half a second later it turned yet another 90 degrees, that is upside down.

I didn't have any trampoline or haka bench. I had fairly much stuff in the boat, but not much on it. I weigh only 70 kg. I sat in the rear seat. The sail was half furled.

I might have to correct myself. I had a trampoline stretched over the front seat. It might have caught some wind. But remember that I sailed with the wind. The trampoline could also have caught a little power from the waves but hardly much.

I'd rather believe the problem was that the wave lenght was the same as the distance between the amas, so one ama was on one wave and the other ama on another wave. I can't explain it well yet, however."

I don't find my speculations very good, so better explanations would be valuable!
Author:  Hobie Crafte [ Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Going to Weather in brutally Strong wind?
Possibly I had a lot of water in the front seat that I could not see, due to the trampoline. Perhaps I had too much stuff in the front seat (like tarps) that stopped the water from coming out of the boat. So I might have had a hundred liters of water in the front seat, without knowing it.

A related theory is that I due to loads of water in the front seat didn't go faster than the waves, which might be troublesome.

Yet another theory is that one or both of my anchors could have been spooled down in the water. That's a pretty interesting theory! I absolutely think one has to fasten the anchors well or they will give you a frightening experience if they fall into the water!
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