Return to Hobie.com
Hobie Forums
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 12:13 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 62 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Design Flaw
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:06 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 15026
Location: Oceanside, California
If windy... I would not sail in the front seat solo. Causes helm issues and is slower. Always better to move aft as the wind comes up.

In lighter wind... yes, more balanced.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Design Flaw
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:14 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:40 am
Posts: 927
Location: Blacklick, Ohio
mmiller wrote:
If windy... I would not sail in the front seat solo. Causes helm issues and is slower. Always better to move aft as the wind comes up.

In lighter wind... yes, more balanced.


That is actually not what I've experienced. In windy conditions sitting in the aft seat, the bow comes out of the water so high that you can't point upwind at all. The bow just gets blow off and you start doing circles. Sitting in the front caused the bow to settle and not be affected as much by the wind. Hiking out on the tramps/hakas is preferable in higher winds than either of the seating positions.

_________________
2015 Hobie Tandem Island Hibiscus
"Third Normal Form"

  • Trampolines
  • Hobie cover
  • Davis Spar Fly
  • Kayakbob's Sprayskirts
  • Spine Board Hakas


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Design Flaw
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:24 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 3323
Location: South Florida
fusioneng wrote:
Keith:
Where did you get that from (Hobie recommends solo in the rear), I know of nothing more awkward, can't reach the centerboard, can't reach the furler, your head gets chopped off by the sail control lines, there is no way possible to hike out ever. And the bow is so high the boat gets blown off course all the time. I think the opposite is true the boat was pretty much designed to be soloed from the front where in my opinion the boat is much better balanced and you can reach everything easily, you can hike out on the tramps and you don't get your head taken off by the sail control lines. All just my opinion of course, but if I had to solo from the back I would have got rid of the boat a long time ago (I feel totally trapped back there. You have no means to balance the boat to keep the AMA's out of the water))
Your kidding right ?
FE

Whoa! You are probably 100% right--looking in the little documentation I have from Hobie about sailing the Tandem, there is nothing about which cockpit to use. I guess my friends (maybe 6-8) with Tandems, who all sail from the rear, have given me that impression. I did think Hobie recommended that, but I don't know where I got that idea. The 2 times I've sailed my Tandem, I sailed from the rear, but I had a passenger, which I always hope will be the case. Walt sails from the rear.

Most of my friends are campers, so they have ballast up front, and can trim their boat.

But, FB, you certainly have additional reason to sail from the front--you have 2 Honda 4-stroke motors on the rear. If you were in the rear seat, you might sink the boat. Just kidd'n. Bob, please see my comments on another thread I started today regarding the furler line and cam cleat.

A few pictures of my friends sailing their tandem from the rear:

Henry on a day sail & my first AI 2 sail

Image


Steve with passenger, Alex

Image


Bosab--a very large man sailing from the rear

Image

Debbie and Tom (RIP)

Image


Royd's tandem, ready to fly (from the rear seat)

Image


Denise & Josh prepping their boat. Josh sails from rear.

Image


Hollywood (Butch) at start of Everglades Challenge--He has made considerable mods to the lines in the rear. He sails from the rear except in very foul weather.

Image


Royd sailing from the rear on a very nasty day.

Image


What can I say, my friends have led me astray!

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Design Flaw
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:29 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:40 am
Posts: 927
Location: Blacklick, Ohio
Chekika wrote:


What can I say, my friends have led me astray!

Keith


Keith, I wouldn't say they led you astray. To each their own. I just know that solo from the rear seat just doesn't work for me. Maybe if I lost a few pounds...
:lol:

_________________
2015 Hobie Tandem Island Hibiscus
"Third Normal Form"

  • Trampolines
  • Hobie cover
  • Davis Spar Fly
  • Kayakbob's Sprayskirts
  • Spine Board Hakas


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Design Flaw
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:32 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:41 am
Posts: 93
Location: Aberdeenshire, Scotland, UK
Although relatively new to the TI (used to have an Outback with sail) I've tried both and found that I lost quite a bit of sensitivity if solo'ing from the front. I have just added DIY tramps and plan to try front again as I see the positives as mentioned above.

_________________
2015 Tandem Island - Golden Papaya "HALIBOO"
(retired) Outback - Hibiscus Red
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Design Flaw
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:49 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 15026
Location: Oceanside, California
mmiller wrote:
If windy... I would not sail in the front seat solo. Causes helm issues and is slower. Always better to move aft as the wind comes up.

In lighter wind... yes, more balanced.


To elaborate...

Sitting more forward when trying to head up high is good, but you can loose helm control, so have to be sure you don't pinch or over sheet.

Once reaching or closer to running... aft is definitely faster.

On cats we trap as far aft as possible in higher winds. You pop the bows up and use the rudder as lateral resistance. Once speed is up, you can retract the dagger board a bit as well. You don't need all of the surface area if at speed and it can cause the boat to trip (tip) which slows you down too.

There is no one seat best for all points and wind speeds.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Design Flaw
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:01 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 3058
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Thats what I like about the TI, you can easily sail from which ever seat you prefer, everyone has their own preference. It's probably good to try both and settle on the seat you like most, which likely changes based on what your doin that day.
FE


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Design Flaw
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:02 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:40 am
Posts: 927
Location: Blacklick, Ohio
mmiller wrote:
Once speed is up, you can retract the dagger board a bit as well. You don't need all of the surface area if at speed and it can cause the boat to trip (tip) which slows you down too.


I never thought of that. I'll have to try that in the spring.

mmiller wrote:
There is no one seat best for all points and wind speeds.


Agreed!

_________________
2015 Hobie Tandem Island Hibiscus
"Third Normal Form"

  • Trampolines
  • Hobie cover
  • Davis Spar Fly
  • Kayakbob's Sprayskirts
  • Spine Board Hakas


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Design Flaw
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:53 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:13 pm
Posts: 161
Location: San Antonio, TX
This!
mmiller wrote:
There is no one seat best for all points and wind speeds.


When solo, I'm all over the boat. When pedalling or going downwind, I'm in the back seat. When heading up wind I'm on the hakas - best seat in the house!

Mainly I tend to go wherever I'm having the most fun. I love being hiked out on a haka, leaning back when a gust hits with the sheet in one hand and the hiking stick in the other while heading up wind. The most relaxing times are kicking back in the back seat while heading downwind with my feet propped up on the gunwale and the view of the boat/sail in front of me. Might as well enjoy all positions of the boat!

_________________
-- Chad | 2014 TI


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Design Flaw
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 2:18 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 2863
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
What chadbach said! 8)
The cam cleats permit sailing from virtually any position -especially if the extreme angle fairlead is added.
The cleat angle can be improved by adding Harkens wedge kit.
A horn cleat limits sailing to one position and adds a potential catch point for lines or your body when getting in/out...ouch!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Design Flaw
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 2:25 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 3323
Location: South Florida
What Stringy said!!

(I knew there was a problem on a boat with anything called a "horn," anything. Uh, oh, my hands are starting to cramp up.)

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon


Last edited by Chekika on Wed Dec 16, 2015 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Design Flaw
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 2:27 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:29 pm
Posts: 2763
Location: High Point, NC
stringy wrote:
What chadbach said! 8)
The cam cleats permit sailing from virtually any position -especially if the extreme angle fairlead is added.
The cleat angle can be improved by adding Harkens wedge kit.
A horn cleat limits sailing to one position and adds a potential catch point for lines or your body when getting in/out...ouch!


You put a horn cleat next to each seat so sailing, and cleating from either, remains the same. I think I mentioned this in my original post.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Design Flaw
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 2:29 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 2863
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
What Keith said!!! :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Design Flaw
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:32 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:41 am
Posts: 93
Location: Aberdeenshire, Scotland, UK
Has anyone tried the extreme angle camcleat with swivel? Thoughts?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

_________________
2015 Tandem Island - Golden Papaya "HALIBOO"
(retired) Outback - Hibiscus Red
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Design Flaw
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:03 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 2863
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Tom Kirkman wrote:
You put a horn cleat next to each seat so sailing, and cleating from either, remains the same. I think I mentioned this in my original post.

So you can hike right out and swap sides easily while maintaining sheet control from a horn cleat mounted each side of the seat?
I just can't see that being as simple to use as one forward aka mounted cam cleat. :?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 62 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
© Hobie Cat Company. All rights reserved.
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group