TI almost dumped us

Went out for a little excitement yesterday as it was a pretty windy (20-25mph) day and I wanted to get in a little end of season fun. Took the wife, daughter and her boyfriend along, which proved to add to the challenge. The two teens are pretty small so probably around 220-230lbs total on the tramps. It was evening time so I anticipated the winds calming as the sun started setting.

Launched on the calm side of the lake with about 8-10mph winds and headed out under full sail. Cruising along about 5 mph before getting into the heavier wind area. I noticed I had about an inch of water at my feet so I knew we were setting a little low in the water with the 2 extra's aboard, but we've done this plenty of times in calmer wind, and we've been out with only 2 aboard in wind like this so it shouldn't be too much of an issue (Ha!). We get out in the heavier wind area and it's gusting heavily (25ish mph) dipping an ama under for a second or so at a time. Speeds still not exceeding 6-7mph but all going smooth. Get to the other side of the lake and turn around to come back and we are nearing the end of a peak where the wind is coming down both channels at different angles. I thought I was set up pretty good, had the boy on the upwind side near the ama, and my daughter on the downwind side sitting in tight to the hull. We was only moving about 5-6mph at the time and got a strong gust of wind that submerged the downwind ama. At first I didn't think too much of it but the gust remained and that ama started going deeper and the upwind ama was now about 2ft off the water and still climbing! The bow started to sink and it was trying to submarine! Best i could see, it looked like the bow was submerged with water up to the mast base and pouring over. I'm not sure how deep the ama went but I held out as long as i thought the gust would sustain, but as things were looking bad I released the sail and everything popped back up although plenty of noise from the sail flopping. I added a little tension back on the sail and turned up wind so I could furl the sail about half way. Everyone's eyes were quite large and we assessed exactly what had happened then cruised on. Having the sail in my hand ready to release was the thing that saved us, but I must say, that sail grabs a LOT of wind and you won't furl it while it's loaded, so be prepared.

Lessons: Don't sail heavy wind while heavily loaded, there is too much drag in the water and the sail will push you over. Keep as much weight to the rear as possible. Keep the sail partially furled in extremely high winds.

Questions: 1. Has anyone capsized from wind only, not from a wave pushing them over? I would think as the sail starts to lay over horizontally it would lose it's pull meaning it might tip you up on your side a ways, but wouldn't actually pull you far enough to capsize without the help of a wave.

2. How strong is the mast? I've had it bent over pretty good, but never had wind strong enough to completely sink an ama like that.

3. I've always wondered if there was only a single person on board in the back seat in high winds, if it could lift the bow and flip you over? Like lift the upwind ama and bow, then catch wind underneath while the stern and trailing edge of the downwind ama act as the only parts of the boat still in the water? Or is there enough weight that it would remain stable? My thoughts are the front seat might be better in that situation, but most say the rear is best?

We had fun, we didn't break anything or loose anything so it was a successful trip that taught us a few things.

I had a similar incident happen to me this summer. Only it was just me on board. I was in the middle of a tack, just as I went to the center hull I got hit with a gust that was off the beam and not off the bow. Without my weight over the windward ama the leeward ama completely buried itself. The sail was almost touching the water. Scrambling up the windward tramp and releasing the mainsheet brought everything back into line, but my heart was in my throat. I'm pretty sure the power boaters that were about 20ft away heard a steady stream of expletives as I scrambled around.

I was sailing from the front seat. My weight precludes me from sailing from the rear, plus I like hiking out on the tramps.

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2015 Hobie Tandem Island Hibiscus
"Third Normal Form"

• Trampolines
• Hobie cover
• Davis Spar Fly
• Kayakbob's Sprayskirts
• Spine Board Hakas

Kleake, Hobie included sail furling for a reason. There are no (desirable!) prizes for hanging on to a full sail when conditions suggest reducing sail area. Furling in stronger winds often INCREASES speed.. my fastest speed upwind with my TI was achieved with half of the sail wrapped around the mast.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

I completely agree tonystott. Part of this run was to have fun and the other part was to test the higher winds. We are still learning the boat and this year we haven't had too many high wind days so this is the first time partial furling was needed. When I set out I had planned to furl partially when needed and I was seeing how it performed fully open and then furl and test again. The gust got us before I expected. After furling my speeds were mostly the same, but it was much more manageable. I think I was pretty much at max hull speed for the depth I was sitting in the water. If the sun would have held out a little longer I would have loved to try with just myself aboard.

Full sail in 20-25 mi winds (higher gusts) makes NO SENSE! (That is the politest way I can put it.) The greater the load, the more stress on the boat.

Keith

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2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

Agreed, but isn't that how we learn our boats? We test what works and what doesn't? I'm not meaning to be completely stupid about it, but testing provides education about how something works. In this case I was heading upwind pretty steep with the intention of minimizing side loading on the sail too much and I was ready to release the main sheet as needed. As we approached where the 2 channels came together we got hit with a strong side gust. As I said, I held on to see how it would respond, and then released the main sheet before catastrophe. Sure, the "smart" thing to do would be to pack it up and go home in that high of winds, but like most of us here I like a little adventure so I wanted to see how the boat handled in higher winds and I had the opportunity, so we went for it. We now know how the boat handles if we get caught out with high winds, and we won't panic in such a situation.

Just so everyone knows, my winds were not that high. I was looking at 10-15 with the occasional wind shadow, but no real gusts. The gust that hit me was completely out of left field in direction as well as strength and was probably 20-25.

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2015 Hobie Tandem Island Hibiscus
"Third Normal Form"

• Trampolines
• Hobie cover
• Davis Spar Fly
• Kayakbob's Sprayskirts
• Spine Board Hakas

No, Kleake, you don't have to pack it up in high winds, but you do have to be prudent, especially when you have passengers. I certainly know freshwater lakes can have very high winds. I only sail on the ocean or Gulf of Mexico. And, I'm probably guilty as most or more so, when it comes to sailing in high winds (sometime you just get caught), but, still, you have to furl your sail when things get begin to get a little dicey. Of course, it is better to furl early, than late.

Keith

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2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

Agreed.. We were all prepared with life jackets and all since we knew it was pretty choppy and such. Normal Oklahoma wind is 10-15 on the lakes, but every time we go out it seems like it's a calm day with only 5mph winds. I like the 15mph winds though as that's where things start getting more exciting!

I would query your testing methodology... working >up< to limits is more logical, especially when carrying the responsibility for the safety of others.

Hopefully you have learned from this exercise that only exposing enough sail to keep about half the leeward ama above water is the fastest way upwind, which allows some reserve for gusts. I actually cleat the mainsheet in those circumstances, safe in the knowledge that I should have enough time to release the sheet should the gust exceed my reserve. Permanently holding the sheet is unnecessary except in extremely variable conditions in my opinion, and also helps you devote your concentration into optimising boatspeed by keeping the telltales streaming.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

When by myself, having fun out on the lake, I've pushed my boat a few times through gusts in this manner. This is definitely not a recommended way to sail, but it has taught me a lot on how to handle big random gusts that can occasionally occur on the lake I sail. Be sure to have the sheet uncleated and ready to run, if the winds get too strong! Most of the time on gusty days, I'll turn the boat into the wind until the sail starts to luff and spill excess wind. As soon as the gust is over, I turn back off the wind and continue on my way. If the strong gusts keep up, then I'll reef. On the other hand, if I'm out to just cruise or on a longer trip, then I'll reef sooner.

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-- Chad | 2014 TI

Tonystot: I agree with the responsibility and safety of others, but when we are sailing, we are a team together so we all were prepared if the worst happened.

To clarify, my main sheet was cleated, but the line was in my hand with tension so I could release the cleat quickly if needed, as I did.

chadbach: This is exactly what I have tried to do, and of course the boat would have handled completely different had it only been 1 or even 2 aboard so learning how it handles with a full load is important to me since that is a typical load for us. Like you, I tried to stay aimed steep into the wind allowing the sail to luff a little, at least until this gust hit.

I posted this to show what we learned, and so others can see what can happen and how to deal with it. I'm not saying what I did was right, good, or smart. We were out to have some fun and excitement, we was prepared and we got it and learned. Even IF we would have capsized, we was prepared. Sure it wouldn't have been as much fun, but we always plan for the worst just in case. The waves were not very big (maybe 1-2ft) as the lake is only about 300 yrds across in this area so I wasn't too worried about that, mostly just the wind being the issue. If you are not prepared or experienced I definitely don't recommend pushing things, but learning your boat is not a bad thing.