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 Post subject: Can TI's actually sink?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:20 pm 
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Various threads over time raise problems with the aka brace pin shearing causing the collapse of the aka/ama causing the boat to capsize (and with very good recovery suggestions), problems with akas separating from the boat, the main kayak hull taking on water through the front hatch or other orifices, issues with hypothermia in cold water (that very scary video at sea), adding flotation, etc., etc.. The common advice is to always stay with the boat. But I'm curious how a compromised TI would fare if the boat remains intact - would it remain afloat if the amas remain sealed and the akas remain attached to the hull but the kayak itself is full of water for some reason (or if the boat capsizes)?
Not sure I want to try it but would like to know.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:57 pm 
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Location: Maui, Hawaii
The foam blocks in the hull are there to make sure this can not happen.

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Last edited by KayakingBob on Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:43 am 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
The AKA bars aren't very strong, if they break your pretty screwed. Without one AMA if the boat fills with water, the bow sinks, you become a barge, your not going anywhere fast, make for shore anyway you can (swimming, draggin the boat)

Last summer on lake Hartwell we had three adults on board, winds were around 22mph. Bunch of water in the hull, the entire rear half of TI was underwater. Very sluggish and hard to control the boat, we made for shore and pumped the boat out. Forget about upwind sailing, downwind only when swamped. If your offshore and it's an offshore wind you won't make it home, (that's one reason we have motors, for emergency backup).
FE

Edit:
A few yrs ago we were running the rapids on the Huron river (Ann Arbor MI) in kayak mode with our TI. Wifes sis got hung up sideways in front of us on a couple big boulders and swamped her sit inside kayak. Wife opened the hatch to get her camera to get a pic of her sis struggling, we had no place to go, and got caught up sideways on the same rocks, the boat filled with water (thru the hatch). The bow sunk to the bottom and became very heavy, we couldn't lift it easily, the flotation blocks in the rear did their job (boat becomes a bobber in deep water (we tried out filling the hull and practiced swamping recovery in our heated pool afterward (not a bad idea to practice everything, and entertaining to the neighbors). We were only in waste deep water in MI, it sure took us a long time to get the boats drained, (way harder than I ever thought it would be). The banks in that area were 3-4 ft vertical mud. LOL I'm sure all the locals enjoyed all our stuff that floated downstream (another lesson learned to tie everything down).


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:28 pm 
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Location: South Florida
I've flooded my hull twice and still made it to land (about a mile away each time) without too much trouble. CaptnGnarly, in the recent EC2017, broke an aka bar. Don't know how, but he made it to land and repaired it.

I think you would really need to work at sinking a TI/AI to be successful. Ideally, when things go wrong, you do not compound the problem by doing stupid things.

Keith

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:51 pm 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
What Keith said!
I flooded my AI hulls twice due to the dreaded drivewell crack. Both times I was out in open water and made it back to land OK thanks to the buoyancy of the ama. The '08 and '09 hulls had no foam fitted.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:58 pm 
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that's encouraging news - trying to add more flotation to the kayak hull would seem to be tough to implement without interfering with control lines, etc. I guess the key is to keep the amas intact and attached to the boat.
thanks for the input.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:53 pm 
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Firstly, your amas provide about 150kgs EACH of additional flotation. The standard included foam blocks in the hull provide enough flotation to keep a fully flooded hull from sinking (that is NOT including the weight of desperate crew climbing on board! )

I have added four pool noodles, end to end down each side of the hull These hardly take up any room, and won't interfere with control lines. If you experiment in a swimming pool, you will find that two will easily support a person even if they aren't wearing a PFD.

For added safety, I cut a fifth noodle in half and zip-tied the pieces together and store this in the bow to provide further stability there.

So for the cost of only five noodles, you can really improve safety in the (highly unlikely) event of a flooded hull.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:47 pm 
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Pool noodles - great idea! Did you just stuff them in or did you fasten/attach them somehow? I've added closed cell foam (24" X 24" 1/2" thick floor pads) under the front hatch just for cushioning stuff I load in, which itself would also add some flotation, but the pool noodles idea is great.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:19 am 
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No, the noodles will just float up into the gunwales as the hull fills, no need to secure them.

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2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker and Hangkai outboard
only cool people follow the (non-magnetic) titanium weight-loss program! lol.)


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:33 pm 
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Location: Foley, AL and Enterprise, AL
200 empty 16 oz. plastic bottles will provided enough flotation to float a fully rigged TI. (200 pounds.) when you finish you soda screw the lid on an throw it in the hull. Each one will provide 1 pound of flotation. They move around easily and probably would not interfere with anything.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:01 pm 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Yea the sea won't kill ya but all that soda probably will, (just kidding).
When we sunk our TI (just the hull, no ama's), it was the bow of the boat that sunk and we couldn't lift it in our 6 ft pool. The floatation blocks did their job but only the rear of the boat was above water. My suggestion is if adding flotation, add it in the bow area.
My thought is if the boat is swamped and level you have a chance to pump it out, or at the very least pedal/sail the swamped boat, (we have done that). But if the bow is pointing down, the boat is not going anywhere.
Just suggestions, we always test our ideas out in our pool, (safer), and the neighbors think we are nuts.
FE


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:59 pm 
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I normally put a dry bag in the bow. Got it about 2x the size i needed (just holds towels, spray jackets for the girls and a first aid kit). I roll it with as much air as i can and still get It closed. Then i stuff it in the bow. It kinda seals the bow off from the rest of the yak too.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:04 am 
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Location: Sweden, sjöbo
I also have drybags stuffed front and rear to get some extra floatation if I should have a big leak.
I am also just about to install an electric bilge pump and allways have a handpump aboard on longer runs.
I hope theese messures togheter with the boyancy of the amas will be enough if the worst happens to get me ashore.
To totaly sink a TI must be very dificult.... But weird things do happen at sea....

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:51 am 
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Every Hobie Kayak has enough foam (blocks) inserted into the main hull to keep the boat from sinking if your were able to completely flood the hull and amas.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:20 pm 
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Location: Foley, AL and Enterprise, AL
I have installed an electric bilge pump with a built in float switch and a one way check valve near the exit through hull fitting. My exit fitting is on the rear deck. I didn’t like the idea of a separate float switch because it could get interfered with by floating debri/cargo. I think a hand pump would be difficult to operate in any type of waves because you would have to open a hatch to use it and any hatch that you have you body weight over in a flooded boat will probably be under water. My boating experience has taught me that when you really need a bulge pump nothing else will do. I hope my pump never turns on except when I test it before each outing.


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