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 Post subject: Buy one TI or two AIs
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:28 pm 
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Location: Northern California
Hi All,

I thought my first post went through, but I guess not. So here goes again. Thanks for reading and chiming in!

We are experienced sailors, owning several keelboats and borrowed sailing dinghies, both racing and cruising.
I have some limited mobility issues. Until I saw the AI I thought small boat sailing was over for me, other than once in a while.
Instead of cruising the big keelboat we are selling it to instead cruise to dinghy sailing locations via rv.

Here is my question. If you are a couple, both having equal interest in sailing would you buy a TI or two AIs?
We can pick up a pair of AIs for $5k and a TI for $4k, within a days drive.
The TI makes sense for sailing/experiencing it all together and if I get too tired or s or I can kinda bail and just relax.
However, we are competitive, like to race and further since my health issues arised it is frustrating to have lost some my independence. Lastly, when you have chronic pain it's usually a better idea to be in control so your body knows what to expect. My hubs is great at letting me helm, most of the time, the big boat. However, I don't want to steal his fun with the dinghies.

Thoughts and opinions welcome!
Also, is there really that big of a difference between the two regarding getting wet, speed and stability?
How awful would an AI sail with a 100lbs over capacity we are not skinny mummies and most importantly we wanna carry a cooler with drinks/snacks and possibly camping gear for any overnight trips.

Cheers,
Sailorv

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:04 pm 
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Your other post is in the Open Kayak forum.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:35 pm 
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I vote two AIs based on what you say about having equal interest between you. Imagine yourself having to sit in the back and not being able to make decisions on where you go or what the boat does. If you can live with that, then the TI will be less effort overall to launch compared to 2 AIs. If not, go with the AI. For me, the fun is in controlling the sails and the boat.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:11 pm 
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Location: South Florida
The AI/AI 2 is a single person boat. Performance wise, it would not do well at 100# over-capacity. I've had 2 AIs for years, and it is a lot of work to prep them if you take a visitor out. This past couple years, I have both an AI 2 and a Tandem. Frankly, the Tandem has gotten the most use in the past year. It can be handled from either seat. It is great for taking a guest out, because you prep one boat, and, if they don't know how to sail, you don't have to teach them to handle their own AI.

The AI 2 (2015 AI and later) is as dry as the Tandem. Both tend to be wet rides, although the back seat of the Tandem is not too bad.

Keith

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:16 pm 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
My opinion is go with the TI, it can handle way more weight, doesn't weigh much more than a AI2 (very little). Most of us use trailers anyway so launching and rigging time is the same with an ai or a ti.
My wife and I are long time kayakers and both have always loved kayak sailing hobie mirage kayaks. We often go great distances exloring rivers, and the backwaters in the keys, (we live in SWFL and the keys). When we had a pair of matching Revos, we also had an oasis.
It takes twice as long to get two (sometimes 3) kayaks down and ready (yea I do all the work).

There is a huge difference in our physical abilities. I think 80% we would go say a few hrs up a river and my wifes legs turned to jello, so I would end up towing her home most of the time. After a while we started using the tandem oasis all the time, and the singles just ended up sitting in the garage.
In 2010 we bought our first TI, basically replacing the oasis. For kayaking (no big sail or ama's) the TI is way nicer and way faster than the Oasis ever hoped for, and is actually easier for me to get on the roof than our oasis was (because it's longer and you only ever need to lift 1/2 the hull anyway. I weighed our Oasis and it was a tad under 90 lbs, and our TI (hull only, not including ama's, seats, etc) weighed 100 lbs. plus it took way less time to get just one boat down and all rigged an setup vs our previous 2-3 (one Oasis and two revos, all with sail kits). We sometimes have four people along anyway (sometimes more).
We eventually sold all the other boats and only have the TI now, ( our family boat). We have way over 250k road miles now with hobies on the roof and camper in tow. We drop in any body of water we can find (even mild class 2 rapids once in a while).
We have the tramps on ours, and have had up to 6 people on it several times (obviously way overloaded with that many so we stay in safe waters, and not far from shore). We are mostly divers and snorklers. When we have way too many people we have an inflatable dingy and two inflatable kayaks that we tow behing the TI for all the gear, coolers, and extra folks. Lol we have towed 4 single kayaks, plus the dingy several times now (we call it the party barge).
The TI single hands no different from the AI2. When tandem you have full sail controls from either seat, and my wife and I always take turns sailing the boat.
However I have to warn you about a very serious thing....it's called fake peddling. We can be peddling on a long day (we are sometimes out ten or more hrs), and the boat just seems to be crawling (we are both pretty spent by then), I call back are you peddling,,, "Yes", boat doesn't change speed, I call back again, are you peddling,,,"yes",,,,, I stop peddling and the boat stops,,,,,haha got ya. She does that to me all the time, to be honest I don't really care, I enjoy the company, and the boat pedals and glides like a dream even with just one person peddling.
Your goin to have a lot of fun.
FE


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:47 pm 
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Location: Northern California
Thank you all so much for your input!
I do fear my hubs would get tired of hauling and doing most of the the rigging. He said that is fine by him though.. We are mid 30's and he is tall and strong, so that all helps.
I really want to be able to take out friends or family. So that alone sounds like the TI is the one.
However, I recall reading a thread here where someone mentions that Hobie has not clarified whether tha capacity is for the kayak only or for the entire boat. Has anyone found out which it is?

Vetgam - I hear ya on that one. Being the passenger can be fun, but for hours at a time would be boring.

Mmiller- whoops, sorry, I didn't catch that my post had to be approved, sorry bout that.

Keith, if just doing a day sail with light provisions (like waters and sandwiches) what's the most weight we could carry on the A2? I am wondering if I am driving if I could take my sister and neice (120 and 110 lbs) on the amas (we would most likely make hakas).

Fusioneng, thanks for that feedback. We love your rv setup (saw some pictures from a post you did). Like that wing jib too. We love FL and if MX gets too hot we may head your exact region of sailing - Panama City, Tbay/Clearwater, Sarasota and south to KW.
Do you think we are crazy for wanting to rv top the TI? We would ad an electric wench. My guy works on and restores boats and remodels houses. He is super handy and is excellent at modernizing and modifying. Great idea with towing inflatables and such. We were thinking we could tow our baby (60lb, older dog) via a zodiak with bimini this way plus provisions.

We will keep researching and keeping our eyes open to ideas and hope to buy something in the next month or two.
Cheers!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:32 pm 
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Sailorv wrote:
would you buy a TI or two AIs?
2 AI rated for 800 lb vs one TI rated for 600 lb

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:34 am 
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Im sailing a TI once or twice a week right now and the thought of having to deal with the setup and take down of two boats would be a big turn off for me. If you both drove vehicles with separate trailers for the boats and each did separate rigging.. get the two AI's. In my case, I would be dealing with both boats. Or if somehow you can keep both boats in a garage right on the water, get two AI's. I think you would get very tired or car topping a single AI and two AI.. yikes.. For the hassle factor, I would get the TI and a trailer. I take the TI out myself about half the time, take my wife hallf the time. The pictures below are from yesterday.

Image

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:11 am 
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Given that it takes only about 7 minutes to fully rig a trailered AI or TI, rigging and de-rigging a couple of AI's isn't much of a chore.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:29 am 
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That's incredibly fast, Tom. In my case, my 2 AIs were stored, disassembled, in the garage. I had to haul them out, load & lash them on my trailer, haul to the launch, assemble them, maybe teach my guest to sail one, return to the launch, load & lash the boats on my trailer, return home, wash the boats, and store them in the garage. It took me a hell of a lot longer than 7 minutes!!!

Keith

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"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:09 am 
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Quote:
Given that it takes only about 7 minutes to fully rig a trailered AI or TI, rigging and de-rigging a couple of AI's isn't much of a chore.


My setup and take down with a traiilered TI takes about that long where I am launching like a conventional small boat (backing the trailer into the water) and its one more of the really great things about the TI. The TI lives on the same trailer back in the garage.

In the case of the OP, if they had two AI's on TWO separate trailers, yes is would be easy. But.. I believe they said they would be using an RV and a single TI on a trailer would still be simple. How this would work with two AI's.. Im not sure but it would get a lot more complicated.

Another picture from yesterday..

Image


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:24 am 
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If the boat/s are trailered with amas in place, you could stop and tell a couple jokes to bystanders and still rig in less than 10 minutes. Pull the mast out of the bag and step it. Hook up the mainsheet. Swing the Hamas out and lock in place. Untie the 2 scraps over the top. Drop the MD units on the tramps or in the hull. Launch.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:13 am 
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As this thread progresses, I'm getting more and more opposed to 2 AIs. Seems to me you can get all the sailing you want on a TI, and none of the hassle the 2 AIs would generate. Because I ONLY sail in salt water, I do not back my trailer into the water for loading/unloading. Saltwater destroys trailers!

Since you folks, Sailorv, are relatively young and capable, you could each rig your own AI. You could probably carry your sister OR niece, but the 2 of them + you would make a dull and, perhaps, dangerous situation if a storm came up.

Considering the social things you want to do, the Tandem is a much more logical choice. Again, the Tandem can be handled from either seat, and, of course, you can change seats each time you go out, if you want.

Weight is everything on these small boats. When you say you are going to make hakas, well, that is at least 25# extra. I love hakas, but nowadays, I find myself using only one or none to keep the weight down. The other thing that has not been mentioned here is the sail. The Tandem has a much larger sail (= faster) than the AI 2. You haven't mentioned whether your AIs would be pre-2015. The pre-2015 (the AI) is still lower performance, much less, than the Tandem.

Keith

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"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:39 pm 
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walt wrote:
...The pictures below are from yesterday.

Image

You think that single guy is not a little bit lonely? That again is the beauty of a Tandem--sociability. Now, if you seldom sail with another person, or there is no one who wants to sail with you, the AI 2 is a fine boat. The AI is just too out of date to consider buying at this time unless money is a major consideration--you should be able to get very good deals on AIs.

Keith

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2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:22 am 
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walt wrote:
Im sailing a TI once or twice a week right now and the thought of having to deal with the setup and take down of two boats would be a big turn off for me. If you both drove vehicles with separate trailers for the boats and each did separate rigging.. get the two AI's. In my case, I would be dealing with both boats. Or if somehow you can keep both boats in a garage right on the water, get two AI's. I think you would get very tired or car topping a single AI and two AI.. yikes.. For the hassle factor, I would get the TI and a trailer. I take the TI out myself about half the time, take my wife hallf the time. The pictures below are from yesterday.

Image

Image

I have to speak up.. Sailing along with a "paw in the air" like in the top photo is extremely inefficient, with the leewards ama generating huge drag while submerged.

Our Islands are blessed with a very rare feature hardly even seen on off-the-beach sailboats - roller reefing. Reducing sail area by rolling a few turns of sail round the mast will make you go faster, with far less strain on the equipment.

Just sayin'

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