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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:10 am 
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Hi all

Iv been testing a 35sq ft screecher to improve reaching performance it works great off the Hobie standard spinnaker kit gives me a 100sq ft of up wind sail area for light breeze sailing. Makes the AI fly on a close or beam reach beautiful sheeting angle and tacks easily. Doing 10 knots sitting out on the tramps with till extension is just stunning.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:26 am 
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Location: Orlando!
This would look great in a video. (Hint)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:45 am 
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Location: Houston, TX
So glad to see people willing to experiment with new sail shape. My goal was to slowly work my way up to this true Code Zero. Love that you jumped right to it. I found that larger jibs play well withe boat as long as you use the Hobie spin rigging system. As soon as you attach the head of the sail to the mast itself the forces on the mast become extreme and I can see the mast potentially breaking. The Hobie rigging distributes the forces down the stays as well as down the mast and the mast will not bend nearly as much.

I don't know this as fact but I believe that the initial Hobie unsuccessful jib testing was done with the jib heads attached to the mast rather than the spinnaker rigging.

Looking forward to regular updates. Base on the emails you have sent me off-forum, I have initiated having one made.
Thanks for being willing to take some risks with your boat and lead the way!

Greg

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2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:02 pm 
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Location: Cleveland, OH
Would be great to know the dimensions of that sail. I suspect if you buy the sail, the mast topper, and the sheeting cleats you could get away for way lower cost than the full blown spin kit.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:36 pm 
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Wind speed 16km building to 24km location Balmoral Port Jackson Sydney consistent reaching speed of 17 to 18km I was overhauling the odd laser lol

The screecher carry’s beautifully up wind spectre line in the luff provides great tension and will sail higher than i hoped. It tacks ever so easily and improves the whole boats tacking if you leave the windward sheet on through the tack bloody superb.

Works with the Hobie spinnaker set up perfectly and snuffs no modifications needed. I have made the tack seperate with a snap shackle so it stays on the Hobie but this is more for set up speed it still runs through the halyard the same. 20 km of breeze is the limit up wind as you can see the pressure building on the rig as the foot of the sail starts to sink down towards the aka bar. If you catch a gust luffing up de powers the boat quickly and dropping is fast as it’s a smaller sail.

I’m used to screechers Code Zero what ever the favourite term is lol on bigger tris so love zig zagging down wind and that ability to sheet on and go to windward so I’m happy more upwind sail area in light winds and a down wind sail as well.

I general use the AI as a daysailer and do the odd long trip love the boat for it’s portability on top of the car and now have a little more sail and a bigger smile. I will try and do a video soon.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:59 pm 
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Location: Orlando!
vetgam wrote:
So glad to see people willing to experiment with new sail shape. My goal was to slowly work my way up to this true Code Zero. Love that you jumped right to it. I found that larger jibs play well withe boat as long as you use the Hobie spin rigging system. As soon as you attach the head of the sail to the mast itself the forces on the mast become extreme and I can see the mast potentially breaking. The Hobie rigging distributes the forces down the stays as well as down the mast and the mast will not bend nearly as much.

I don't know this as fact but I believe that the initial Hobie unsuccessful jib testing was done with the jib heads attached to the mast rather than the spinnaker rigging.

Looking forward to regular updates. Base on the emails you have sent me off-forum, I have initiated having one made.
Thanks for being willing to take some risks with your boat and lead the way!

Greg


I’ve toyed with the idea of stitching a D-ring 2/3-3/4 of the way up the sail in order to stay it on both sides. You should gain efficiency from a sail shape not out of whack from a ) shaped mast, and the shrouds would help distribute the load over several points so as not to add more stress to the base. Make them easy to unclip and they can be furled into the main. I think this would also really help close-hauled performance.

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Last edited by Pescatoral Pursuit on Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:30 pm 
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Location: Oceanside, California
Another caution. We did not make the spinnaker system work for a jib due to the higher sheeting and mast compression loads caused when upwind sailing. Be careful as the wind increases. You could fold the bow.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:41 pm 
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Hi Matt

Yes understand it comes down once too much pressure builds.

Happy to buy a new hull if all goes wrong it’s a risk to get the boat i want I have no space for a Weta/Astus etc

AI is a fantastic boat Matt thanks Hobie

Cheers Andy


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:19 pm 
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Final thought this is not a jib

It will not help pointing actual you loose height it it’s a reaching sail. It’s just my view but the lack of a forestay and the fact the Island series was not design for that sail plan really reduce the value of a jib, however having not tried one I’m open to be correct. I did toy with a carbon strip in the luff but in the end went with spectre.

I wanted the screecher to tack ie clear the mast neatly on a reach the fact it actual assist tacking the boat was an added bonus but not in the original brief.

Hobies halyard set up although a little time consuming to set up is actually very clever.

Cheers Andy


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:49 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:24 pm
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Location: Houston, TX
Thanks for commenting Matt. I understand your point and maybe I've just been lucky so far with my jib.I would be very nervous putting any jib on a TI without reinforcing the bow due to that bow weakness in the front hatch area. Chadbach has reinforced his TI bow very effectively with aluminum rods. He''s been sailing with a jib for a couple of years now. When he flies that jib he is next to impossible to keep up with.

I will admit that when I added a Jib to my 2012 Ai, I took on more water. So I must have been some flexing going on in the bow. It was countered effectively with alpine butterfly knots in the hatch bungies. My 2016 Ai has been watertight jib or no jib.

Greg

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2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:27 pm 
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Location: San Antonio, TX
Griffp1 - That's a great looking sail, would love to see some more pictures or a video of it in action.

vetgam wrote:
Thanks for commenting Matt. I understand your point and maybe I've just been lucky so far with my jib.I would be very nervous putting any jib on a TI without reinforcing the bow due to that bow weakness in the front hatch area. Chadbach has reinforced his TI bow very effectively with aluminum rods. He''s been sailing with a jib for a couple of years now. When he flies that jib he is next to impossible to keep up with.

I will admit that when I added a Jib to my 2012 Ai, I took on more water. So I must have been some flexing going on in the bow. It was countered effectively with alpine butterfly knots in the hatch bungies. My 2016 Ai has been watertight jib or no jib.

Greg


Ha, thanks Greg. I might be a bit faster when going with the wind, but I think you'd blow me away on any point of sail going windward. The TI is too unbalanced, especially with the jib, which I expected. I've learned that it's pretty useless anywhere less than 70 or 80 degrees off the wind. Though, when the wind is off the beam, it works very well and makes things a lot more exciting! The aluminum bow bracing has been working out good. I got the idea from other posts on here.

Pescatoral Pursuit wrote:
I’ve toyed with the idea of stitching a D-ring 2/3-3/4 of the way up the mast in order to stay it on both sides. You should gain efficiency from a sail shape not out of whack from a ) shaped mast, and the shrouds would help distribute the load over several points so as not to add more stress to the base. Make them easy to unclip and they can be furled into the main. I think this would also really help close-hauled performance.


For the last year or so, I've been playing around with shrouds to help distribute forces. When hiking out and trying to keep the boat level, they alone give some boost to the boat since they keep the sail from spilling as much wind. This, of course, makes the boat noticeably less stable, so watch out. I only use them if the jib is out or when I want a more active ride - hiking out and trying to squeeze out a little more speed.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:02 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:31 pm 
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For me this is the end of my development as a daysailer as the limitations are not sails and rigging but the boats hull construction ,free standing mast and beam construction. I have to except that Hobie did not design the Island series for what I want to do with it. I must also thank the people who developed the tramps and tiller extension as that was key for me in buying one in the first place.

The boat really sails beautifully now, screecher up, pedals out and sat out on the tramp where you catch less spray I might add ha ha

I would love to design a tri that is a similar size, portable a bit lighter and stiffer. No foils like the current obsession just a stable fast day sailing pocket trimaran I can dream hey.

In the mean time thanks Hobie.

Cheers Andy


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:19 pm 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Very impressive Andy! 8)
That second pic gives a better view of the setup. I was wondering what the difference was between a code zero screecher and a code zero spinnnaker but I can see that the screecher looks to be half the shape of the spin. It looks like the screecher with its upwind as well as downwind capability could be more versatile than the spinnaker. I find I mostly furl the main when spin sailing to get the best shape out of the spin and avoid tangles.

Hobie -are you saying that the 35sqft screecher exerts more force than the 73sqft spinnaker?

PS- Andy if you like hiking out on the tramps you’d love haka, which make for a much better higher, drier and more comfortable hiking out experience.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:51 pm 
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The spinnaker is pretty much loading the boat pulling the bow and mast head forward. The backstay of the spinnaker holds the mast aft. When using a Jib you need hard tension along the luff to sail upwind. This is pulling the mast head and bow towards each other while also exerting compression loads on the mast into the hull. Jib Czarnowski folded a TI bow during a EC by trying to sail upwind with a prototype jib kit.

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Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA


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