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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:23 am 
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Location: Fairfax, CA USA
I don't know if its independent or not, but I just spent the day sitting in one place on the new seat (I.e.; sturgeon fishing), and it was far and away more comfortable than my old '11 model year seat. The mesh was cool on the backside, dry and gave plenty of support.
Just that one change was worth it to me ( not really, but darn close).

This time I was single ama'ing it, and I was again impressed by how much faster the boat pedals. At my normal cadence and heart rate, I'm about half knot faster ( from GPS).


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:54 am 
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Location: Bethany, OK
BradK wrote:
I'm looking forward to an independant review of the seats.


The seats were a major reason I waited for the '15 TI, I already knew from my Outback that I couldn't stand the stock Hobie seats (killed my back after just 10-15 minutes in it) but I couldn't do my Outback seat mod to the front seat of the tandem. I was originally going for the AI - where I could do the mod - but preferred the tandem.

Only been out once with the TI - I'm taking the day off today for a second run between arctic blasts - and I found the new seats wonderful. As in "didn't even think about them" wonderful! :mrgreen: Usually if I'm thinking about the seat it's because I have a problem or am uncomfortable.

There is one minor issue I had, and another potential one I noticed. First is steering. I like a reclined seat position so have the front of the seat raised, which puts the front of the seat more or less flush with the sides of the TI. That means the steering handle is down toward the bottom of my leg - and being rather beefy (read: way overweight) it can be a bit inconvenient to hang onto the steering handle, especially when the wind is to the right so the steering handle is now almost *under* my leg as the TI leans over. Hobie supplies some extenders to raise the handle a few inches, I'm going to try those today.

The potential issue is hiking out. I wonder if the cords that support the back of the seat may get in the way of easily sliding in/out of the seat to hike out or cross over when tacking. I'm nowhere near to doing that yet, though. I'm still well over the weight limit of the tramps at the moment and haven't built any hakas yet.

I did move between the front and rear seats a few times, no great issue there though the ease with which the seat moves around - between the seatback folding down and the whole seat pivoting forward on the front mount - was a bit disconcerting. The seat is the most convenient thing to grab hold of for a little support - but it provides none! :lol: Had to keep reminding myself to grab the akas instead.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:27 am 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
RandomJoe:
If I understand what your saying correctly about the steering handle being too low when the seat is in the high position, I believe Hobie has a fix for that already. I believe they just came out with a steering handle extender that raises the steering handle about 1.5 inches up off the deck (probably in the new accessories catalog somewhere). If you go to the dealer and look at the new PA 17 you will see the steering extenders in action. I believe the extenders are available as a kit. Worth looking into anyway. Of course I could be imagining all this, but I swear I saw it somewhere ( LOL)
Hope this helps
Bob


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:34 am 
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RandomJoe wrote:
Hobie supplies some extenders to raise the handle a few inches, I'm going to try those today.


Yep, you're right! :mrgreen:

They actually shipped with the TI. I put them on this morning, will see how they do.

I also noticed while I had the handle off it has two slots in it, so I could just turn the handle 90 degrees and have it sticking straight out the side which would probably eliminate the problem too. I couldn't do that with my Outback, since its handle is in a recess. I'll take a screwdriver along so I can experiment with each position.

I probably want the extra height anyway, since I like to recline a bit it's a stretch to reach the handle and that bit of height will help.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 3:28 pm 
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Location: South Florida
My First Sail With My New 2015 AI 2


Here is a 2:20 min video of my first sail with my AI 2. We were on a beam reach, wind ca. 14-15 mph, gusting to 17-18 mph, 1’ chop, wind coming offshore. We sailed out of Matheson Hammock County Park Marina into Biscayne Bay. The video is typical of the sail, although it did not catch some of the really big splashes. My AI 2 is not equipped with any accessory yet.



WaterTribers Joe Slama on my 2011 AI and Henry Ovares piloting his tandem joined me. Both will compete in this year’s Everglades Challenge which kicks off on Mar 7 from Ft Desoto.

My bare bones AI 2.

Image


Henry & Joe lead the way. I asked Joe to furl his sail some because of his inexperience with an AI; however, he is an experienced sailor and had no problem.

Image


Joe is loaded with his EC equipment and testing some EC clothing. He had a fun day on his first AI sail.

Image


Henry off my port with Miami in the background.

Image


I’m happy to say my first sail with my new AI 2 was very uneventful and fun. The boat performed very well. It was fast. In my 2011 AI, I would hit speeds of 6-7, maybe 8, mph under these conditions. With the AI 2, my speeds were regularly 7-9, and occasionally 10 mph. Henry and I generally kept even. As can be seen in the video, the large volume bow seemed obvious. There was no diving and even the downwind ama was not driven under water.

Occasionally, I noted that the boat seemed a bit “skiddish.” I had the centerboard down at all times and the Mirage drive was in. Compared to the AI, the AI 2 bottom is flatter and has less “keel”. (Edit: There is something different about the hull bottoms in the AI & AI 2, but I'm not sure what it is--maybe the AI 2 is just a bit broader.) In other words, it is more like the Tandem. Being a couple feet shorter than the Tandem, and weighing about 50# less, the AI 2 will be a bit more susceptible to the ocean conditions.

Overall, I continue to be very impressed with the AI 2. It had only about a cup of water in the hull at the end of the day. That was nice. Oh yes, the Vantage CT seat—as mentioned above, put it in, enjoy, and forget about it.

Keith.

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2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon


Last edited by Chekika on Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:13 pm 
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Wow, that travels well Keith! No sign of lacking forward buoyancy at sll. You must be delighted with your new baby.

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2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker and Hangkai outboard
only cool people follow the (non-magnetic) titanium weight-loss program! lol.)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:22 pm 
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I'm sure under those conditions Joe would have been wetter than you were at the end of the day. Impressed with how little splash there seemed to be. Did you notice if it felt heavier or lighter than the AI 1 whilst in full flight ?

Just wondering next time you're out Keith, if you could try 'adventure' mode. Just wondering how the hull performs with less keel and a higher centre of gravity due to seat height. I can't see it possibly being as stable as the AI 1.

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Don't take life too seriously................it ain't permanent.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:40 pm 
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So far, I am pleased, Tony, but of course, the real test will come when I do a camping trip.

Slaughter, there were a few, over-my-head splashes. I was wishing I had my foul weather gear tightened up a bit more (a lot more really.) I'm going to get some spray skirts on soon along with a wave buster. It definitely felt much lighter. I occasionally felt like I was a "feather" on the water. Loading it with camping gear will be interesting.

Regarding the "Adventure mode," my guess is that it would be less stable. But, you may know, Hobie is not advertising the "Adventure mode" for the AI 2. Not at all. Apparently, the 2015 Mirage Adventure does not exist. Rather, if you want one, you need to buy a Mirage Revolution 16. It looks like the AI 2 but is not convertible to an Island. Good move in my mind. I have found in the last yr or so, I was not using my 2011 AI in the Adventure mode, so, it is of no consequence. If I did use it in the Adventure-mode, I would be cranking the Vantage CT seat down as low as possible.

Keith

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2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:42 pm 
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Sweet ride. You earned the easy chair, Keith. :mrgreen:

I wonder how the new seat will handle the EC?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:44 pm 
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Keith:
I am very impressed.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:50 pm 
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Location: Long Jetty, NSW
Thanks Coachstevo, Joe and Keith

So it looks like my decision to wait for the new seats is the right one.

The photos's look great! I wonder if I can order a TI with the Ivory hulls and the Papaya sail? I like the Ivory look but a splash of colour would be cool :wink:

Cheers

Brad

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Papaya Tandem Island - "Dry Reach"
Lengthened Jet Ski trailer
"Kayaking Bob" Spray Skirts
Trampolines


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:24 am 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Chekika wrote:

Regarding the "Adventure mode," my guess is that it would be less stable. But, you may know, Hobie is not advertising the "Adventure mode" for the AI 2. Not at all. Apparently, the 2015 Mirage Adventure does not exist. Rather, if you want one, you need to buy a Mirage Revolution 16. It looks like the AI 2 but is not convertible to an Island. Good move in my mind. I have found in the last yr or so, I was not using my 2011 AI in the Adventure mode, so, it is of no consequence. If I did use it in the Adventure-mode, I would be cranking the Vantage CT seat down as low as possible.

Keith


Keith,
Thanks for the video clip and the other info. The AI v2 looks like an impressive ride!
Re the Revolution 16 - it is a rebadged Adventure kayak. Same hull as the original Adventure/AI v1 but without any of the Island moulded in fittings, as you say. It also has the redesigned seatwell but that's about it from what I understand.
It does still have the Daggerboard slot though! :roll:
The new seating is supposed to be the same height as the old when in the lowest position.
Is this not correct?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:41 am 
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Great video and write up Keith.
Just a quick question for you. I am redesigning my trailer and need 1 measurement.
What is the distance from the centre of the mirage drive well and the tip of the bow?
Thanks.

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2015 Adventure Island.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:24 am 
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stringy wrote:
Keith,
Thanks for the video clip and the other info. The AI v2 looks like an impressive ride!
Re the Revolution 16 - it is a rebadged Adventure kayak. Same hull as the original Adventure/AI v1 but without any of the Island moulded in fittings, as you say. It also has the redesigned seatwell but that's about it from what I understand.

It does still have the Daggerboard slot though! :roll: Now, THAT is funny!

The new seating is supposed to be the same height as the old when in the lowest position.
Is this not correct? No, that can't be correct. In the lowest configuration of the AI 2 Vantage CT seat, I measure 2.5" above the center hatch cover to the mesh seat--the mesh seat is essentially level in this configuration. The AI 2 hatch cover is 1 3/8" above that in the AI. So, with no one in the seat, the AI 2 Vantage seat is about 4" above the center hatch cover of the AI. Lower the AI seat further because of the "bowl" configuration, and the AI 2 Vantage seat would average >4" higher than the regular seat on the AI. In its highest position, the AI 2 Vantage seat would be >7" above the AI seat.

Hogman wrote:
What is the distance from the centre of the mirage drive well and the tip of the bow? 80" This is from the tip of the reverse cut bow to the Mirage Drive well latch.
Thanks.

Keith

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2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:01 am 
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Chekika wrote:
No, that can't be correct. In the lowest configuration of the AI 2 Vantage CT seat, I measure 2.5" above the center hatch cover to the mesh seat--the mesh seat is essentially level in this configuration. The AI 2 hatch cover is 1 3/8" above that in the AI. So, with no one in the seat, the AI 2 Vantage seat is about 4" above the center hatch cover of the AI. Lower the AI seat further because of the "bowl" configuration, and the AI 2 Vantage seat would average >4" higher than the regular seat on the AI. In its highest position, the AI 2 Vantage seat would be >7" above the AI seat.


Hobie's claim (at least Matt mentioned this a few times) was that they lowered the floor to keep the new seat height the same as the old seat. You might compare the depth from deck to bottom of hull on your two and see if that makes up the difference.

However, I sure do feel "higher" on my TI than I do on my Outback! (Perhaps not a useful comparison, but there it is.)

A side note: We've joked /commented here about the speed drains - what use were they now we have the Vantage seat? Well, I sure wish I'd remembered they were there yesterday! Got cold while out yesterday - and felt like I was pretty wet for some reason. When I got out I found that the well under my seat was, in fact, full of water - and when sitting in the seat in the lowest position my butt was dipped in that 43 degree water! :lol: Brr...


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