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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:14 am 
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I thought I was clear.

I am not so interested in the actual weight (in two digits!) at all.
But the difference between my old 2012 AI and a new 2015 AI interest me a lot.
Any bathroom scale can give a hint of that.

My only concern is handling the increased weight when launching and hauling the craft into and out of the sea, when on tour.
Sand beaches will not be a big problem, but there are only a few where I travel.

br
thomas


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:15 am 
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fusioneng wrote:
Personally I think everyone is putting way more into this weight thing, than it's worth (again just my opinion). My TI weighs around 200 lbs (without the motors (55lbs) though I have never attempted to actually weigh it (don't really care)), (Bob, you don't know what your boat weighs--you have not weighed it.) the next closest competitor boat is the Windrider 17 which has about the same sail configuration as my modified TI (about 260 sq ft of sail) and similar sailing characteristics. The WR 17 I think weighs in at over 400 lbs, and I know of nobody that has even attempted to car top a WR 17. In my opinion I'm way ahead of the curve (but thats just my opinion), this is why I love my TI. I think an H16 weighs in over 350 lbs. Thankfully I can car top my TI when I want to, I think we are still way ahead of the curve. What's a couple lbs among friends ( LOL)

Just my thoughts

Bob

Bob, a "couple lbs" especially if it is 30# tacked on top of 27# (Hobie specs for AI 2 vs. AI) is a lot. If you only trailer your boat, load and launch from ramps, jeah, no big deal. But, if like some of us, you are hauling it up 3-4-5' beach by hand, a "couple lbs" means a lot.

The bathroom scale I used is an EatSmart scale. On Amazon it has 16,703 reviews and a 4.5 out of 5 star rating. Maybe you all need to check it out, even buy one. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001KXZ808/ref=gno_cart_title_0?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A37RGE1MLU3I6K

If anyone disagrees with my measurements, they should weigh an AI 2 and report the results.

To me it is very clear that the Hobie published weight for the AI 2--142#--is obviously much too low. The one value that Hobie and I agree on is the Hull, about 105#. Add to that ONLY the amas (20# each) and you already exceed the Hobie "fully rigged" weight of 142#. Now, Hobie's site says, "Includes the Fitted Hull Weight, plus all other standard features that are removable, e.g., MirageDrive, seat, paddles, gear bucket, water bottle, cassette plug, PA (removable liner), Islands (sail, amas, akas, daggerboard)." Its a joke. If you add all that stuff, the AI 2 would weigh over 185# The Hobie site AI 2 weight of 142# borders on fraudulent. Sorry.

As I said on a previous post, I moved the disassembled boat around yesterday, and that is the way I will do it. I think I will like the boat. What irritates me is the complete disagreement of Hobie's spec weight with the real weight that I observed.

Stringy, "site TYPO" is being too generous.

Mingle, I couldn't weigh my Vantage seat accurately on my kitchen scale, but it seems to be about 2.5#, maybe a bit more.

Keith

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Last edited by Chekika on Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:51 am 
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Surely Hobie aren't telling porkies with their published weight specs? :o

It might be very interesting legally when that ceiling hoist or roof rack fails because it was overloaded but the official Hobie published specs stated it was within limits.

I know my AIv1 weighs more than the published specs viewtopic.php?f=71&t=54004

I thought the reason Hobie went to the two weight specs awhile back was for accuracy? I don't understand the real world discrepancy.

PS- Keith, I think Mingle was using your figures for the AI2, and yes, I was joking with the typo comment.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:21 pm 
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stringy wrote:
Surely Hobie aren't telling porkies with their published weight specs? :o

It might be very interesting legally when that ceiling hoist or roof rack fails because it was overloaded but the official Hobie published specs stated it was within limits.

I know my AIv1 weighs more than the published specs http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopi ... 71&t=54004 My wife's 2009 AI is significantly lighter than my 2011 AI, but I can't weigh them all by myself. Next week a friend may come over, and I may weigh all of them, the hulls--THAT will be interesting.

I thought the reason Hobie went to the two weight specs awhile back was for accuracy? I don't understand the real world discrepancy.

PS- Keith, I think Mingle was using your figures for the AI2, That would explain our close agreement. and yes, I was joking with the typo comment.

Well, I was not joking, and I think my weights are accurate to within a 2-3%. I do think it is possible that Hobie has just let that "142#" slide as well as what is included in the weight of the "fully rigged boat." They need to straighten it out.

Keith

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"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

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Last edited by Chekika on Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:04 pm 
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Reviewing with engineering and the factory.

fact is... boat weights can vary and new products seem to experience weight creep due to manufacturing process changes as they work out oven issues, but we will have a look.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:21 pm 
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Good to hear, Matt.

Keith

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"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:43 pm 
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Keith:
Like usual you are correct, and hobies weight specs should be close to reality, i was just trying to explain how bathroom scales operate and how to get the most realistic measurement at home, this way when all of us post weight measurement they are close to real weight. Establish what is included then post our results, if we average the weights it should give us a pretty good arguement with hobie to correct their weight figures. Or at least we all would know what the real weight is and what to expect.
I agree there should not be a 30-40 lbs difference between published weights and what people are actually measuring.
Bob


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:53 pm 
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Quote:
[quote="Chekika]
My wife's 2009 AI is significantly lighter than my 2011 AI, but I can't weigh them all by myself. Next week a friend may come over, and I may weigh all of them, the hulls--THAT will be interesting. [/quote][/quote]

Agreed Keith, that will be interesting.
I had an '08 which suffered a drivewell crack. It was warrantied with an '09 which also cracked and was warrantied with an '11, which is still going strong.
Some of the weight increase is probably due to drivewell strengthening.
Here are the figures I previously posted for your comparison:

My '11 hull with pinned aka:
Hull = 42kg (with twist-n-stow rudder)
AMAS = 14kg
AKAS = 4.88kg
Mast/Sail = 4.31kg
Mirage Drive = 3.22kg
Seat = 1.3kg
DB = 1.07kg
Total rigged weight= 70.78kg. Hobie specs = 52.16kg


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:07 pm 
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If the boat is heavier, I wonder if Hobie will have to adjust the weight capacity. 28lb is quite a lot to loose if you're into expedition trips

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:52 am 
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When you mentioned alternative support designs for the trailer, I just thought I'd post these shots showing something slightly different. I've had these noodles, in this orientation, on the jet ski trailer for years now without the hint of hull distortion. By cable tying the noodles at the gunwales, with a bend so that the hull contacts the noodles with an equally distributed load, the AI is cradled securely in transport whilst also allowing for easy launching when required.

Image[/URL]

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:33 am 
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Very smart, Slaughter. It looks like you also have padding for the amas--true?

Roller wrote:
If the boat is heavier, I wonder if Hobie will have to adjust the weight capacity. 28lb is quite a lot to loose if you're into expedition trips

Good point, Roller. Despite the fact that the AI 2 has a greater capacity and volume, I'm going to fight every impulse to carry more stuff. Rather, it should make it easier to carry the same stuff. That is a problem with some people using tandems to camp. They bring everything but the kitchen sink, literally. On the other hand, my very experienced WT friend, Royd Whedon, who solos his tandem on camping trips, has 2 large waterproof bags which he simply straps in the front cockpit area. Very fast and easy. Generally, WT people are into fast setup/take down--smart.

Keith

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"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:08 am 
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FYI... the brochure was printed last fall and a LONG time before the boats got into production (December / January). I'm not sure, but the amount of polyethelyene used is likely part of the difference.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:14 pm 
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I can't complain too much about the weight, because, someplace I said I thought Hobie should make an expedition model of the AI which would be stronger and heavier. My complaint above is about the weight on the Hobie web site (& the brochure). I suspected it was something that was put on the web and nobody (conveniently?) got around to changing it. I do wonder why Hobie would continue to say that the weight includes things that are not normally in/on the boat when it is being loaded onto a trailer or roof racking. Why include the Mirage Drive (7.6#), water bottle (.5#), paddle (3#), & seat (6#)? These weigh upwards of 17#.

Mingle, if you are still reading this, the Mirage Drive weighs 7.6# on my bathroom scale.

Keith

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2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon


Last edited by Chekika on Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:07 pm 
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>Mingle, if you are still reading this, the Mirage Drive weighs 7.6# on my bathroom scale.

Yep, that's pretty close close to what I got (7.2lb) for my V2 drive.

I'm hoping that Hobie bring out and "A.I. Lite", based on the Revo 13, but with a proper
sail/outrigger system like the A.I. and an all-up weight of, say, 50kgs?

Matt, and I dreaming? :-)

Mike.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:13 am 
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mingle wrote:
Matt, and I dreaming? :-)


Yep!

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