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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:30 pm 
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Location: Northern California
What is your max wind experience and what is the max limit you will go out in?

Hubby and I had a wild 35 minute TI sail today. Also the shortest ride yet! Normally we would not go out in today's snotty conditions, but we went on a camping trip with the intent of sailing today, so we did. Forecast was 15 kts and gusting 22. I checked recorded data afterwards and in my experience it was about right but looked and felt a little heavier (knowing these conditions keelboat racing in heavy weather and at anchor in this region in up to 35 kt gusts).

We started at 20 with gusts to 25, reaching. We went out 3/4 reefed. A couple more turns and better, less mast bend, better control. Down river too. Water temp was 58f and all I have on are slip on shoes and my sailing foulie bibs and a tshirt. I was freezing within 10 minutes, got really wet . Thankfully it was sunny and 70f+ air temps. I don't have a wetsuit, hubs does, nor dry suits, just sailing foulies.

It was a winding river so we got each point of sail in. We called it quits when heading upwind when it was blowing steady at 27 kts and gusting to 33 and we had a knot of current against us. Top speed was 7.3. My personal best was 8.7, alone (hubs weighs 250#) in 20, gusts to 26 kts. I may have continued if I were alone. I feel the additional weight made me nervous some. Also, we had the tramps rolled up so no hiking and we don't have hakas yet. Would we have been fine if we had hakas? We are experienced dinghy, small - big boat sailors with several racing seasons too.

Got home 2 hours later, took a bath, hands were pins and needles for a few minutes...a little frost nip...had fun though and it's always nice to be out on the TI.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:47 am 
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Those conditions sound about the same as my upper limits. I think people tend to underestimate the special capability of bering able to reef that sail. My fastest (and most exciting!) sail in my TI was when the clew was not much more than 3 feet from the mast, and that little handkerchief of a sail had the bow firing into each wave and momentarily lying under a thin sheet of water, until said water arrived into the cockpit.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:28 am 
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Location: Northern California
So you pretty much just had the third batten out, right?
Yup, we are in very similar sailing grounds, SF Bay and Sydney areas definitely share some similar sailing demographics.
When ya entering the Sydney-Hobart? Haaa! Could you imagine a TI doing that race?!

You have a youtube channel, right Tony? Got a vid of that day? I am always looking to improve my Island sailing skills.
Without a boom I feel like I am still a little lost at times with telltale trim signs, more used to sailing cat rig dinghies with a boom, ya know. However, it is a lot like just sailing the big boat with just the jib, no main. On the Island I am directly below it, not 40' aft looking straight at it.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:21 pm 
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I reached my limits in an unpredicted, sudden thunderstorm with winds gusting to 25-30 kts and waves of three to four feet. I thought I could handle it and was trying to sail back to the loading dock. After about 50 minutes of intense sailing I thought I was going to make it when a huge gust came within a few degrees of capsizing my TI. It was too sudden to do much about it but instincts kicked in and I managed to turn the boat just enough to bring it back down within seconds of a capsize right near a rock cliff. That drained all my courage and I made a beeline for the nearest shore arriving cold, soaked, and shivering. This was the first time I did not make it back to my destination.

I abandoned the boat on the beach and walked five miles back to my car in the storm. That day gave me a new respect for the forces of nature.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:17 pm 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Sailorv wrote:
...Also, we had the tramps rolled up so no hiking and we don't have hakas yet. Would we have been fine if we had hakas?


Haka definitely help when the wind gets up a bit. Furling is the key, but you can have a bit more sail out when hiked out.
If you want to solo and hike out make sure you make your haka cantilever over the rear aka to about the rear drivewell. That’s the best position for boat balance when soloing.
The ideal wind speed for unfurled Islands is around 10-15knots. Definitely furl at >20knots. The boat becomes a handful at >25 knots despite a furled sail, with windage on the hull/ama/mast coming into play.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:52 pm 
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Location: South Florida
pro10is wrote:
I reached my limits in an unpredicted, sudden thunderstorm with winds gusting to 25-30 kts and waves of three to four feet. I thought I could handle it and was trying to sail back to the loading dock. After about 50 minutes of intense sailing I thought I was going to make it when a huge gust came within a few degrees of capsizing my TI. It was too sudden to do much about it but instincts kicked in and I managed to turn the boat just enough to bring it back down within seconds of a capsize right near a rock cliff. That drained all my courage and I made a beeline for the nearest shore arriving cold, soaked, and shivering. This was the first time I did not make it back to my destination.

I abandoned the boat on the beach and walked five miles back to my car in the storm. That day gave me a new respect for the forces of nature.

Thanks for relating your story. Good reminder to the more experienced of us...don't take weather lightly; it may just take a bite out of you.

Keith

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:39 pm 
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The problem I experience when the winds pick up to 20-25 kts or more is that the sail becomes very difficult to furl with all the wind tension on it. You have to first steer into the wind to deflate it which can be quite tricky with only two hands, one trying to hold the rudder steady in high winds/waves and the other trying to furiously furl the sail while it's flapping wildly in the wind. It can be done of course but it takes some practice and skill, and in such conditions there is little room for error.

It's best to furl the sail at the first sign that the winds are picking up, even before you think you need to.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:49 am 
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
pro10is wrote:
SNIP
It's best to furl the sail at the first sign that the winds are picking up, even before you think you need to.

That is the very essence of good seamanship, and applies to all sized sailing vessels

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only cool people follow the (non-magnetic) titanium weight-loss program! lol.)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:03 am 
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Sailorv wrote:
So you pretty much just had the third batten out, right?
Yup, we are in very similar sailing grounds, SF Bay and Sydney areas definitely share some similar sailing demographics.
When ya entering the Sydney-Hobart? Haaa! Could you imagine a TI doing that race?!

You have a youtube channel, right Tony? Got a vid of that day? I am always looking to improve my Island sailing skills.
Without a boom I feel like I am still a little lost at times with telltale trim signs, more used to sailing cat rig dinghies with a boom, ya know. However, it is a lot like just sailing the big boat with just the jib, no main. On the Island I am directly below it, not 40' aft looking straight at it.

No Sydney Hobarts, but I recall a guy with a Seawind 24 cat, who was refused entry to the 150NM Adelaide-Port Lincoln yacht race, so he started 2 hours aftrer the fleet, and was first to arrive, singelehanded! he once took me for a sail, and when he pulled on the mainsheet, I fell over backwards!
Image
Unfortunately, I don't have aby heavy weather TI videos, as it is always way to busy to think about cameras!

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2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker and Hangkai outboard
only cool people follow the (non-magnetic) titanium weight-loss program! lol.)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:15 am 
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Location: Northern California
Thanks for all your comments guys.

Pro10, wow what a lesson! Thanks for sharing it. Mother nature has a way of humbling us huh?
That 5 mile walk sounded awfully long and cold.
Btw, I know what you about furling with a lot of tension. As soon as I see it start billowing at the luff I quickly pinch or fall off and take in a couple of turns. I follow the adage reef early and study the hell out of wind forecasts and shoreside landscape to figure out shadowing. Keeping a pair of small binoculars is also good for reading the wind further ahead.

Tony, yeah that sounds like a Seawind. Dream cruising catamaran (33'+) for sure. That's pretty cool how he showed em....first to cross two hours after start. A friend has done several Hobarts....you couldn't pay me to do one...a nasty race.


Guys, I really wanna hit 10 kts, I think what I need is:

18kts, gusting to 25.
Broad reach
Half furled
Board mostly up
Out on the tramp, leaning behind the aka bar by ama with a hiking stick

Or am I wrong?

I did this w/o stick and not as far out on the stbd tramp when I hit 8.7, no stick, steered with my foot/toes.

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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 8:32 pm 
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Location: Orlando!
Think I hit my new max today at around 15mph. Ate it like candy. Leeward side of the lake, nice 1-1.5 lake chop. Tramps rolled up, furled in to the first batten. Only one gust where it started to bury the pontoon. Mostly close-reaching/ hauling. I was beginning to lose faith in this boat in that it was slower than my adventure in similar conditions. Then I found a sweet spot on a broad reach and the boat took off. Yay.

Cloudy drizzly windy. No other conditions I'd rather sail in. Had the entire lake to myself on Memorial day weekend.

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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 7:59 am 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
We sail a lot and have exceeded our comfort level too many times. The TI is an incredible design, and with a few simple safety mods, (all of us know all about them), the boats can handle quite a bit, (much harsher than I would ever have dreamed of trying to sail my old sunfish in, lol with the sunfish in high winds and rough water, we would capsize 5-6 times in those conditions, fine when your young and fit, not so fun when old and fat, (lol)).
Most boats have a sweet spot, where sailing is the most fun, but still not to dangerous.
It also makes a big difference if your in protected waters, (ie... lakes, rivers, bays, close to shore and safety), vs offshore, ( or giant bodies of water like Tampa and Sarasota bays, which are actually way more dangerous than offshore).
There is also quite a difference between stock TI’s and those that are a little souped up, (real vs imagined capabilities, you need to be very careful here).
My opinion a stock TI is a little boring in 3-7mph winds, typical sailing speeds are 2-4mph, which usually involves much pedaling, and you simply can’t go very far, (most stay within a mile or two of launch). These are the conditions we are normally out in, (mostly because I’m handycapped). Darn few Sailboats, and TI’s even bother going out on those days. However these are the most ideal conditions for snorkeling and diving, (great underwater visability, in the keys we can easily see 30 ft), which is our favorite pastime. Our boats were specifically designed to exploit these conditions to the greateet effect.

My opinion is the sweet spot for sailing these boats, (when stock) is around 8-12 mph winds, ( about the same sweet spot as most lasers, sunfish, and most dingies btw). Mostly because the boat sits so low to the water, sailing at the upper end in 1.5-2ft chop becomes quite uncomfortable for us, (we get drenched), just not fun for us, (thats a personal opinion obviously). To most this is where the fun begins. You can count on the boat performance to be around .6 to .8 of windspeed on most points of sail, (which is not too bad at all), of course a little better downwind with the optional spinnaker kit.

Next up is around 13-18 mph winds, most begin to furl their main in near the upper end here, and the boat goes like crazy, ( highest fun factor, for the younger croud, but a ltlle much for us). However the stock boats upwind capabilities in these conditions, ( especially offshore with offshore winds and against current) can become quite dangerous, ( we have been blown out to sea and couldn’t get back too many times). The upwind pointing ability (around 50 deg off the wind) typically ends up with a negative VMG for us. Basically we are sailing like crazy, but the VMG ends up zero or negative. We have many times spent hrs sailing and pedaling our hearts out 1/4 to 1/2 mile from shore zig zagging back and forth sailing like crazy unable to get to shore. ( my biggest pet pieve with these boats when stock).

I consider 20-25 mph wind to be the upper safe limits of these boats, and only highly experienced sails only, and only in protected water. Small craft advisories are there for good reason, ( you are putting the rescuers in personal danger). A couple yrs ago the everglades challenge went thru here during a small craft advisory, all the local lifeguards and safety people had to go out and rescue a whole bunch on their jets ski’s and such, boy were they all really pissed off, ( putting themselves in danger), they are still mad about that and still talk about it, ( lol, it’s best not to bring up the subject around here, just sayin), really spoiled it for the rest of us. Now if I’m out is small craft advisory ( which my boat is equipped to handle), if I’m spotted out on the water, they now come and get me, and order me off the water, ( yep they are still really mad it seems).

25 plus to 35 mph winds , around here we are talking 4-6 ft vertical washing machine chop, the boat is not designed for this and will break up and flounder, your life is in grave danger. Anything over 35 mph and the boat breaks up, ( even if massively hardened). If looking at weather advisory, pay attention to wave/sea info also, it’s usually pretty accurate.

Just my 2 cents.
FE


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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 8:31 am 
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Winds 8-12 mph are boring. 15-18 mph are fun. 18-22 mph are rockin' and rollin'. Above 22 mph is no fun and require most of your sail to be furled as you try to get to safe harbor. If you are camping in these upper wind conditions, best to hunker down if you can. I'm referring to using a hardened stock AI/TI in these conditions.

Keith

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"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 4:52 pm 
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Location: Orlando!
fusioneng wrote:
d
Next up is around 13-18 mph winds, most begin to furl their main in near the upper end here, and the boat goes like crazy, ( highest fun factor, for the younger croud, but a ltlle much for us). However the stock boats upwind capabilities in these conditions, ( especially offshore with offshore winds and against current) can become quite dangerous, ( we have been blown out to sea and couldn’t get back too many times). The upwind pointing ability (around 50 deg off the wind) typically ends up with a negative VMG for us. Basically we are sailing like crazy, but the VMG ends up zero or negative. We have many times spent hrs sailing and pedaling our hearts out 1/4 to 1/2 mile from shore zig zagging back and forth sailing like crazy unable to get to shore. ( my biggest pet pieve with these boats when stock).


FE


I’m in Orlando but worked the last two summers on longboat key. They were many afternoons I enjoyed watching the well-defined storm front, Lightning and all,coming from southeast of the big bridge, across Sarasota Bay, over long boat key and pushing West out into the gulf, and thinking I wouldn’t want to be carried out with that. I’ve been on the east coast and have seen worse storms though with less frequency, develop over land and push out over the Atlantic, and shutter to think what the boaters are dealing with, let alone the yakkers. One of the reasons I carry a drift chute now is to mitigate lost ground if I get caught out in those conditions.

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 5:30 pm 
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There is an old saying among sailors - the time to reef (furl) is the instant when you wonder if you should. Or something very close to that effect.

It is actually possible to go faster, with less heel and difficulty, when the sail is furled to match the conditions. The TI can stay on the water when all the other multi-hulls have to come in.


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