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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 7:32 pm 
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Just looking for some thoughts and maybe a few people to join in a day trip around Poquoson VA.

Image

Leave from the red mark end at the yellow. I am planing on having my wife drop me off and take the truck back. Yellow ramp is walking distance to my house at a private neighborhood dock.

The pink route is about 5 miles one way and i do that trip most weekends to take the kids to a beach. The whole trip is about 15 miles so in light wind i figure 4-5 hours max. Pretty sure i could do it in 3 hours with decent wind.

This will be my first time taking the TI out of the back river bay area into the Chesapeake.

Thoughts? Anyone want to join? Looks to be a half day trip but pretty mild. Am i over simplifying it? Is 15 miles really a big trip in a TI? I have seen FE’s trips and they make this look easy. I will sail/peddle and have my torqueedo as a backup if there is no wind. Ultimate goal is to build up confidence to cross the Chesapeake from my house to Kiptoepete.

Image

22 miles while playing frogger with ships... might be too much...


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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 9:09 pm 
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We averaged around 55 miles a day for four days on our most recent trip. Fifteen miles is a normal daysail for me. If you've got mostly fair winds and a favorable tide, you're looking at less than three hours.

But if you want to cross the bay, you need to get open water experience and this will be a start. Go for it and have fun. If the winds are strong and tides are against you it could take all day... In that case reverse the route. Once you get comfortable with going with the wind tide in your favor you need to work on going the hard way both to learn how to sail going to windward in the rough stuff, as much as you can in a TI anyway.

Given decent conditions, I don't think a bay crossing will be that big a deal. But be prepared with all the safety gear, just in case.


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 3:43 am 
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Thanks MrMoon,

I have been sailing for over 15 years but never sailing to get anywhere really. Most of my experience is on H16, Lasers, Sunfishes and a few j-boats. Pretty much a typical day was go out if it felt windy and sail back and forth trying to go fast. Never cared about tides.

So tides: what should i be looking for?

I assume as it approaches low tide it will pull me out of the bay (tide going out) and after high tide it should push me in correct?

So lets take today for example low tide is at 11am and high tide is 5pm

So on my route if i hit the water about 10am that should give me some pull so by the time i make it to the other bay it should be pushing me in?

I also assume wind it is wrapped up with the tides too so how do i plan this? Apps or websites i should be looking at?



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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 4:33 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
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Location: South Florida
Tidal currents can run 5-6 mph with or against you. If you are going through passes with a 5 mph tidal current against you, you have a problem...you are not going any where except maybe backwards.

If you have a 3 mph tidal current against you, but a decent following wind or a nice reach, you can make progress.

Looking at your map, you could have a tidal current with or against you in the 4 mi bay leading to your home. Again, with a favorable wind, you could handle it. Still, you could time your outings to take advantage of the tides.

We did a number of trips a year ago along the SW coast of FL, roughly about 250 miles total. We started about 9 AM and finished about 5-6 PM and did about 35 miles per day.

Wind can favor or oppose tides. If winds oppose tides, you can get some serious chop with close, sharp waves.

Keith

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"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 4:49 am 
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How do i figure out/ plan for tidal currents?




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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 5:12 am 
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Location: South Florida
You need to figure out where tides are being measured. It is unlikely that the tides you get on a site, will be the same as the tides near your home. For example, in Chokoloskee (about 80 mi west of Miami), high tide is about 2 hours after high tide out on the Gulf of Mexico. So, you need to get the tide from your tide reporting site, and compare it with the tides in your bay.

One way to think of it is like a series of linked bath tubs. The first bath tub (Gulf of Mexico) fills first (high tide), then a number of bath tubs need to be filled before the last bath tub (Chokoluskee) is filled. It takes time, and by the time the Chokoloskee bath tub is filled, the tide has been falling in the Gulf for 2 hours.

Finally, as those "bath tubs" leading into Chokoloskee are being filled (incoming current), it is just about impossible to take an AI/TI out through the passes to the Gulf of Mexico.

Keith

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2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 6:10 am 
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I just looked at my Garmin Bluecharts on Homeport. They show tide and current stations. The tides in your area are pretty small, around 2', and the rivers aren't that long. I wouldn't expect more than a knot or two in any direction at peak ebb/flood. These electronic charts don't give current predictions for your river, but they do give them out in the bay. In the middle near the ship channel, it shows never more than about 1 knot, reversing directions depending whether ebbing or flooding.

Your route around the outside of the wildlife refuge is pretty shallow water. Charted depths are 1-5' at MLW.

I'd suggest a Coast Guard Aux course on coastal navigation for you.


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:04 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:16 pm
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Location: Colorado
Your trip sounds like a lot of fun.. I love using the TI for things like that!!!

Maybe get a chartplotter like this one https://www.thegpsstore.com/Garmin-ECHO ... P5399.aspx or the slightly larger version.

I think this will accept the Garmin bluechart (micro SD card) but it sounds like your tide currents may not be enough to worry much about.

But.. the main reason I mention the chart plotter is if you have the risk of running into fog. You still have a visual map showing you where you want to head to. I dont know if anyone adds a small radar reflector to TI but that is the next fairy easy step. Past that you can get complicated with radio AIS.. etc. Some of that might be overkill for what you want but the basic chart plotter is fairly easy and useful for fog or just getting out where you cant see land details.


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:09 am 
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The GPS store has the Garmin GPSmap78sc handheld chart plotter on sale right now for $199, Reg $270 or so. The SC has US+Bahamas charts preloaded.

I just bought one, since I lost my venerable GPSmap 76 csx over the side a couple of weeks ago. I also bought a RAM mount for my new GPS, cuz that was an expensive mistake.


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:59 am 
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Thanks all.

Coast Guard Aux-

Thanks for that info. They seem to only have the basic class around me. I want the sailing skills one it looks in-depth. I found the course book for it on amazon I’ll probably just read that. I know the sailing basics but it never hurts to read up on that. But i am really interested in the waterway/nav basics.

My 7-10 year plan is to get a big cat (40-50ft) and sail the east coast. I have seen used ones in the 80-100k range. So between now and then i want to build up to getting a captains license by probably 2025 ish.

Chartplotter-

I have a Lowrance 5TI that i dont know how to fully use (need to take a class on that one day). I wasn’t stressing about the chart part of this trip as i know the area pretty well and will follow the coast line at most a half mile off probably only hundreds of feet off. If sank the TI i would really only have to swim like 500 feet and i could walk the rest. Pretty shallow.

But on the other hand i should start using it so if i do plan my crossing trip i know what i am doing with it.

Side note: anyone have portable battery hookup for their finder/plotter? I would love to bring it inside to play with rather than sitting in my yak in the garage... i know i can buy an extra cable and battery just curious if there is like a pre-made kit or something better?




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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 9:18 am 
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Defy wrote:
Side note: anyone have portable battery hookup for their finder/plotter? I would love to bring it inside to play with rather than sitting in my yak in the garage... i know i can buy an extra cable and battery just curious if there is like a pre-made kit or something better?


I have a quite large 30A 12v bench power supply I use for testing, updating, learning, experimenting on, repairing all of my 12v mobile and marine devices at home. Smaller power supplies in the 2A to 5A range can be found on Amazon for $30 to $100. You can buy or fashion additional power cords specific to your device for home use.

Peter


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 5:37 am 
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Location: new smyrna beach
For basic tide information I use a Vestal brig & tide watch. In basic layout it gives the current day or current & next day tide times and heights. But you can also check future tides by setting a date to check.
It has 200 worldwide locations, luckily enough I am in New Smyrna Beach Florida which is one of the 200 selectable locations. If you're not so lucky to be near one of the 200 locations you can choose nearest and calculate the offset in your head.
For more detail and micro zones tidal information I use a full size Garmin.


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 6:13 am 
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Location: South Florida
I believe this site has access to every tide in the world. http://tbone.biol.sc.edu/tide/index.html

Keith

_________________
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"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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