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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:17 am 
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Location: Northern VA
Thinking about adding a trolling motor as 4th propulsion system for when I do something stupid and get into a situation where being able to power out would be beneficial or while in unfamiliar waters with tides and currents.

I've been fully satisfied using my TI with only wind, pedal and paddle. But.... Going to be spending time in the Florida Keys this summer in unfamiliar waters where the currents can be strong through the creeks and the channels. Thinking just having the insurance of a trolling motor to assist would be very beneficial for some situations.

I would love to just by the Torqeedo 403c and know I'm covered, but it is quite expensive and have not really had a need for it in my regular boat use. Don't really need or want to deal with a gas engine either.

Anyone running a Newport Vessels Kayak Trolling Motor on there TI/AI? Kayak 36lb thrust saltwater for $139.

https://newportvessels.com/kayak-trolling-motor-36/

Would a 36lb thrust be just enough to assist with pedaling to overcome currents easily without having to sprint pedal the distance. Looking to pedal my leisurely 3 knot pace but with the assist be able to overcome ~5 knot currents as needed.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:11 pm 
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Location: South Florida
I only sail in salt water, mostly the Gulf of Mexico. Since 2007, I've sailed an AI/TI in all kinds of crappy weather, even capsized once, and I've never felt the need for a motor. The AI/TI are small boats. Why weigh them down more with a motor? Just my thoughts. To each his own.

Remember, tides change. They only run strong for a couple hours. If against you so much you can't make progress, pull over, take a break, when the tide slackens, move. If the tide turns, ride it out. Be sure to carry bug spray.

Keith

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2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:14 pm 
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I’ve been fooling around with a bixpy jet as secondary propulsion. It’s not great on the TI as an only means of power, but combined with the fins you can really get some speed! I used to have a trolling motor, however lugging the motor and battery were a real pain. I used a group 24, perhaps there are lighter options now a days? The Bixby weighs nothing, battery weighs nothing (6lbs perhaps) and fully waterproof, floats,etc.... I’m liking it.

Anytime you venture down to VA beach you are welcome to give it a try.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:22 pm 
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Location: Orlando!
I had a 45# thrust trolling motor on my AI and it would move it pretty good. Not a bad idea especially if you can spring for a lithium ion battery.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:28 am 
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s9utct wrote:
Thinking about adding a trolling motor as 4th propulsion system for when I do something stupid and get into a situation where being able to power out would be beneficial or while in unfamiliar waters with tides and currents.

I've been fully satisfied using my TI with only wind, pedal and paddle. But.... Going to be spending time in the Florida Keys this summer in unfamiliar waters where the currents can be strong through the creeks and the channels. Thinking just having the insurance of a trolling motor to assist would be very beneficial for some situations.

I would love to just by the Torqeedo 403c and know I'm covered, but it is quite expensive and have not really had a need for it in my regular boat use. Don't really need or want to deal with a gas engine either.

Anyone running a Newport Vessels Kayak Trolling Motor on there TI/AI? Kayak 36lb thrust saltwater for $139.

https://newportvessels.com/kayak-trolling-motor-36/

Would a 36lb thrust be just enough to assist with pedaling to overcome currents easily without having to sprint pedal the distance. Looking to pedal my leisurely 3 knot pace but with the assist be able to overcome ~5 knot currents as needed.


Where I boat I've found a motor on the TI to be an absolute must, I've been in life threating situations where I needed it, but I can understand that this may not apply to everyone. The best thing about the motor is that it greatly enhances the enjoyment of the boat because now I can sail anywhere I want without worrying about how I'm going to get back if the winds change or die down.

I tried both the Torqeedo and gas outboards. Both worked great and I recommend either. I've written extensive reviews on both in this forum which you should be able to easily find. However, I can certainly understand about the expense of the Torqeedo and the hassle of adding a gas outboard. I can only say that I think you'd find either more than worth it in the long run.

However, if you want to try to adapt an inexpensive trolling motor to the TI, and you have the requisite skills, then you should try. It won't result in as good as performance as either the Torqeedo or a gas outboard, but you may find it acceptable for your particular use. There are some people who have successfully done this with a TI, perhaps you can find their posts in this forum or elsewhere.

The Florida Keys can be a very dangerous area, however. Fusioneng is a member of this forum who has a great deal of experience in the Keys, hopefully he's still around and will post a reply. But if not, please be careful. I would recommend that if you do boat there, you should definitely have a capable motor. Keep in mind that a motor of insufficient power can be easily overwhelmed by waves and currents in rough weather. I personally would not trust an electric trolling motor conversion for this application or any application where your life could be potentially at risk.

The TI is an excellent boat, but any boat can be overwhelmed by the forces of nature. Everyone has the responsibility of ensuring their own safety and the safety of their passengers. Adding a capable motor to the TI greatly enhances the safety in my opinion and can get you out of a lot of dangerous situations.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:10 am 
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Location: Northern VA
pro10is wrote:
Where I boat I've found a motor on the TI to be an absolute must, I've been in life threating situations where I needed it, but I can understand that this may not apply to everyone. The best thing about the motor is that it greatly enhances the enjoyment of the boat because now I can sail anywhere I want without worrying about how I'm going to get back if the winds change or die down.

I tried both the Torqeedo and gas outboards. Both worked great and I recommend either. I've written extensive reviews on both in this forum which you should be able to easily find. However, I can certainly understand about the expense of the Torqeedo and the hassle of adding a gas outboard. I can only say that I think you'd find either more than worth it in the long run.

However, if you want to try to adapt an inexpensive trolling motor to the TI, and you have the requisite skills, then you should try. It won't result in as good as performance as either the Torqeedo or a gas outboard, but you may find it acceptable for your particular use. There are some people who have successfully done this with a TI, perhaps you can find their posts in this forum or elsewhere.

The Florida Keys can be a very dangerous area, however. Fusioneng is a member of this forum who has a great deal of experience in the Keys, hopefully he's still around and will post a reply. But if not, please be careful. I would recommend that if you do boat there, you should definitely have a capable motor. Keep in mind that a motor of insufficient power can be easily overwhelmed by waves and currents in rough weather. I personally would not trust an electric trolling motor conversion for this application or any application where your life could be potentially at risk.

The TI is an excellent boat, but any boat can be overwhelmed by the forces of nature. Everyone has the responsibility of ensuring their own safety and the safety of their passengers. Adding a capable motor to the TI greatly enhances the safety in my opinion and can get you out of a lot of dangerous situations.



I've been reading many topics and posts from Fusioneng and his rig for the Keys. This is what got me thinking about the 4th power options due to unpredictable weather and currents in the area. I definitely do not plan to go offshore diving like his primary usage. Figure majority time on the bays to the flats, but if the opportunity arises on a good weather day give it a shot on the Atlantic side as well, but definitely not planning anything offshore.

I've read your full thread on the Torqeedo 403. That is what I would get if cost was not part of the equation. Just can't justify it as I don't need a motor for my current usage patterns. But it would allow me to the opportunity expand my usage for sure.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:12 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:19 am
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Location: Northern VA
Just building my comparison for electric options for weight, performance, and costs.

I pulled the numbers I could from manufacturers website or other sources like the real world numbers that pro10is posted for the Torqeedo on his TI. The speed/range for Bixby and Vaquita are complete estimates.

Range calculation on the basic 12 v trolling motor has been reduced to only 75% discharge of the battery as well. Battery cost is for battery, box, and charger. Railblaza motor mount for simple comparison.

All feedback appreciated.

Image


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:34 pm 
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Location: Pennsylvania - Philly Area
My advice, given the waters (Florida Keys) that you are sailing in.....get a gas powered outboard (recommend 2.5 hp Suzuki).

I sail in coastal tidal areas where strong currents and waves live.

The electric trolling motors just do not have enough thrust to overcome these conditions. Could be OK for lakes but not enough power for coastal / tidal bodies of water. This is especially true for long full day sails.

I got surprised by sudden 25-30 knot winds in Delaware Bay (water temp ~ 35 degrees F) yesterday....combined growing waves and surface debris that fouled my rudder. The TI was flying down wind at 10+ knots with very little ability to turn. The strong wind generated dangerous and growing waves pushing my TI towards a rocky shore in front of a nuclear power plant..... After gaining partial control of the TI by furring the sail (still with no rudder control) I was able to quickly fire up the Suzuki and use it to steer me to the upwind shore and safety where I was able to clear the fouled rudder and resume my sail (with a full 5 reefs of the sail).

Edit: added link to YouTube showing the outboard mount on the TI.
https://youtu.be/SUyqkqqZbkU

I always sail with the Suzuki....best safety equipment (besides my life jacket) that I have on the boat.

Jim

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Jim
Hobie TI 2016 - Offshore rig - Outboard
Hobie Kona 2014
Hobie AI 2015 - sold
Hobie Rev 13 2014 - sold
Hobie Outback - 2008 - sold


Last edited by powersjr2 on Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:45 am 
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I've created a chart for TI motor suitability within varying weather conditions. The Torqeedo 403 vs gas outboard motor section is based upon my experience with both motor types mounted on a TI. For the trolling motor, it's based upon my past experience with such motors on boats other than the TI and projected for use with the TI. This reflects my opinion only but I believe it to be quite accurate. Others may have different opinions.

The difference between the two Torqeedo ratings is that the 403/403A models use a 320 Wh battery and the 403C/403AC use a 915 Wh battery. The larger battery allows you to run the motor faster and longer for a considerably greater safety margin in bad weather. The Trolling motor battery is assumed to be a typical 12V lead/acid heavy-duty marine battery. All batteries are assumed to be near a full charge.

The gasoline engine ratings assume a nearly full tank of gas (1 liter) which typically gives an hour's worth of run time. Of course, more gasoline can be carried, but I can tell you from experience that it's difficult to refill the tank in very bad weather conditions.

The ratings are not only based upon available torque, but also the motor's ability to maintain adequate torque over the time and conditions it must typically operate, especially in potentially dangerous weather.

The ratings assume you are running without the sail. Running with the sail would improve the ratings in good weather conditions, and possibly in bad weather conditions provided you know how to sail properly in bad weather. If not, running with the sail in bad conditions could possibly make things worse.

The bad weather scenarios assume you are making a run to shore with no sail within an hour's worth of running time. If you're using the TI in areas where dangerous weather conditions can suddenly occur and you are over an hour's distance from the nearest shore, then I would consider that to be beyond the reasonable safety range of this particular boat even with a motor (although I admit to doing this myself).

The ratings are as follows:
E: Excellent, the motor will perform without problems.
G: Good, the motor will be adequate if not ideal in these conditions.
F: Fair, the motor will be performing adequately but is near or at its limits.
P: Poor, the motor may still help but it is beyond its limits and may not be able to overcome the current conditions.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:21 pm 
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Location: Pennsylvania - Philly Area
pro10is,

Fully agree with your table break down with different recommendations for adding a motor to the TI.

I typically sail with the 2.5 hp Suzuki where the internal 1.0 liter gas tank gives me about 70-80 minutes run time at about 50% power (pushing the TI at close to 6 mph) with the sail up. I typically carry a small 2.5 Gal gas tank as backup (~ 9.4 liters) which converts to over 9 hours of run time (lots of safety factor here). Refilling the 1 liter internal gas tank at sea can be tricky but doable even in moderate seas. I have adopted one of the special no spill gas caps that give you great control over fuel flow from the 2.5 Gal tank to the 1 liter tank. Even has a water tight end cap. I also use a special fuel additive that helps mitigate any moisture / water that might inadvertently get in the gas.

Agree the wind, waves and current (tidal or river flows) conditions that you sail in dictate the best approach given your assumptions (about 1 hour run to safety).

The same table with a bit of tweaks for longer 2-3 hours "run for safety" would most likely come to the same conclusions.

Jim

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Jim
Hobie TI 2016 - Offshore rig - Outboard
Hobie Kona 2014
Hobie AI 2015 - sold
Hobie Rev 13 2014 - sold
Hobie Outback - 2008 - sold


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