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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 7:13 pm 
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Location: Pennsylvania - Philly Area
My fellow Island Sailors,

I arranged for an in depth interview with fusioneng (Bob Morton) on this forum to discuss our mutual interest and ideas around the Hobie Tandem Island.

The 2 hour plus long interview has been published to YouTube to share with my fellow Island sailors.
https://youtu.be/NWnhcY-bCa0

The genesis for this interview with Bob (fusioneng) was our common need for making the Hobie Tandem Island safer, more enjoyable with expanded performance and range in challenging coastal sailing conditions.

Two main treads (listed below)on the Hobie Island forum provided much of the content discussed (we really on scratched the surface).
- The ultimate Tandem Island (hydrofoils, Spinnaker, jib, etc) https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic. ... t=ultimate

- Hobie Tandem Offshore - Mr Hobie - We Need a New Kayak!
https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic. ... t=Mr+Hobie

Below you will find the intro slide, agenda for the interview, and a few images of the modifications made by fusioneng and future ideas provided myself.

I thank Bob for his time. I really enjoyed hearing his stories behind the TI modification including the motivation for taking the paths that he took. I was a bit surprised of the common background we both had and the paths we took. A fun 2+ hour discussion.

Enjoy.

ImageHobie Tandem Island Interview with Bob Morton by Jim Powers, on Flickr

ImageHobie Tandem Island Interview with fusioneng by Jim Powers, on Flickr
ImageBob Morton fusioneng TI modifications by Jim Powers, on Flickr

ImageHobie TI New Ideas 1 by Jim Powers, on Flickr

ImageHobie TI New Ideas 2 by Jim Powers, on Flickr

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Jim
Hobie TI 2022 - Offshore rig - Outboard - having fun!
Hobie TI 2021 - Offshore rig - Outboard - sold
Hobie TI 2016 - Offshore rig - Outboard - sold
Hobie Kona 2014
Hobie AI 2015 - sold
Hobie Rev 13 2014 - sold
Hobie Outback - 2008 - sold


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:11 am 
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This is incredible and a must-view for virtually all TI owners!!

Many thanks to Jim and Bob, two of the most well-renowned and experienced TI advocates, for taking the time and effort to do this!

Much appreciated!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:01 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:18 pm
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Great informative video for newbs like me. Thank you.


Could you please go into a little more detail about what you guys mentioned about the TI have a flaw going upwind and never being able to make it back to shore? This starts at around the 24 min mark. I ask because my first attempt to get into sailing I had an old sunfish that did the same thing. I thought it was the dagger-board because I turned around and bought a puffer and it never did this and had a much larger dagger board.




What about the part about sharks trying to get through the tramps? Have you seen that actually happen? Not telling the fiancé about that as she is already scared to go into some areas because of alligators :)


Great information ...thanks, Fletch

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22 Compass Duo "Liparus"
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 7:05 am 
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No sailboat is great at sailing into the wind but the TI is particularly bad at it. With its very basic single mainsail, small dagger-board, and plastic kayak-style hull, this is not surprising. The TI is a decent daysailer but certainly not the best example of an efficient and agile sailboat.

If you find yourself in a situation where you have to sail close hauled in order to reach your destination or back to the shore, you can easily have difficulties, especially since approaching a shore might also involve fighting adverse currents. Sometimes, even with aggressive tacking, it's simply not possible to reach your desired destination with the TI given certain wind, wave, and currents. This should not surprise an experienced sailor, but those attempting to sail with the TI without a lot of experience might be taken aback that they can't get to their destination using the sail alone.

In this situation the MirageDrive can be a blessing, however, even with two people pedaling, this might not provide the power necessary to overcome certain adverse conditions.

Most sailboats, including the TI, should consider the use of an auxiliary motor, especially for large lakes and offshore use.

Here is some information on sharks relating to kayaking that also applies to the TI.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 6:30 am 
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Location: Chalfont Pa
There are a lot of TI owners who have done some amazing work modifying the boat to expand the capabilities. But I think that leads to others thinking they need to do these mods without trying the boat first.

I am primarily a multihull sailor. I have lots of hours in a monohull but just like the other type more. Even with its drawbacks. We sail mostly in lakes but have some bay experience and no ocean experience in the TI. Did it with a Hobie 16 but that was a long time ago. I have found the biggest challenge with the TI is also one of its advantages, light weight. It carries no momentum upwind or thru a tack but accelerates very well and loves to surf off the wind. The mirage drives are a huge advantage to the weight issue, try pedalling in higher winds when pointing, the boat will point higher and muscle thru the waves better. You don't need to pedal like mad, just a nice slow action. In lighter winds it helps too, improves the apparent wind vector.

So while the mods stuff is interesting the stock boat is also a pretty good design when used within its capabilities. Personally I would hate to be on my TI when exceeding the capabilities and have the motor die.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 7:52 am 
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quattroguy wrote:
...Personally I would hate to be on my TI when exceeding the capabilities and have the motor die.

Exactly, or just as bad, have no motor.

This happened to me twice in the seven years I've owned my TI. The first time I had just purchased my TI and had no motor. I was trying to get back to the launching area located in a protected bay. The winds had increased to around 30 knots and I was trying to tack upwind into the bay. The combination of high winds, heavy currents, high waves, and trying to navigate into a small entrance of a breakwater made it impossible to get back even with the MirageDrive. I landed ashore several miles away and had to wait hours until the winds died down.

The second time was much worse. I had just purchased a Tohatsu outboard motor for the TI. A bad thunderstorm came out of nowhere without warning and I was trying to navigate back to the launch area in very high winds and heavy wind-driven waves. The Tohatsu motor was a poor design and kept swallowing water from the breaking waves. I couldn't keep it running for more than a few seconds, so it was worthless. Even with the sail properly reefed and trimmed, the TI was overwhelmed and nearing a capsize. The nearest shore was a 70-foot shear cliff so I couldn't head there. This was probably the only time in any boat that I felt was life-threatening and I'd been boating for decades. I somehow managed to muscle the TI around the cliffs and immediately headed to the nearest safe shore. That was a frightening ordeal I'll never forget. If the TI had capsized, I may not have survived in such extreme conditions.

The bottom line is that the TI is a very small boat. Everyone sailing it must be prepared for challenging conditions and always have great respect for the forces of nature.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:06 pm 
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The bottom line is that the TI is a very small boat. Everyone sailing it must be prepared for challenging conditions and always have great respect for the forces of nature
Maybe you should have thought of that before going out. Sort of my point.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 1:39 pm 
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quattroguy wrote:
...Maybe you should have thought of that before going out. Sort of my point.

People are not born sailors, everyone starts out somewhere. It takes considerable experience to develop the necessary skills and to properly be prepared for difficult conditions. Due to its size and relative ease of use, the TI is often the first sailboat many people may own. It can easily surprise new sailors both with its capabilities and incapabilities.

People who purchase the TI for the first time may not be fully aware that it can be quite dangerous in certain conditions. The boat itself looks harmless and fun. It's not until you encounter such forces that you might realize that even a moderate storm can be potentially dangerous in such a small boat, especially if it has no motor.

In my case, I came from power boating which are significantly larger and far more powerful. They are much more resilient to storms and can power through a lot more situations. It was a bit surprising to me just how easily the TI can be overpowered. I'm fully aware of it now and have the skills and equipment onboard to deal with it, but I can easily understand that many new to the TI and sailing may not. Passing on this experience to others who may be just starting out may help them avoid a dangerous situation.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:29 am 
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You are making my point. A beginner putting an outboard on thinking it makes them safer in questionable situations is even worse.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:16 am 
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quattroguy wrote:
...A beginner putting an outboard on thinking it makes them safer in questionable situations is even worse.

Well, that depends. Putting a reliable, powerful (2.5 to 3 HP rated) gas or electric outboard on a TI is certainly better than not having an outboard. Propulsion redundancy is a safety feature on any sailboat. Additionally, in severe conditions such as heavy winds and waves, it's often better to completely furl the sail on the TI and then use the outboard to safely get back to shore. In very heavy winds, the sail can put severe lateral forces on the boat that can cause a capsize or break the mast and requires considerable sailing skills to safely maneuver. It's often safer for a beginner to forego the sail and use the motor to get to shore since the TI is much more stable without the sail in such conditions. Additionally, if the sail fails, you have backup means of propulsion.

However, if the point that you're trying to make is that a beginner might become too lazy to learn proper sailing or too emboldened with an outboard and then get into situations they normally wouldn't, or become too reliant on the motor, then point taken. The motor should never be used to sail confidently into bad weather or to go offshore without proper sailing knowledge or experience, and like the sail, should not be relied upon as the sole means of propulsion. If either the motor or the sail fails, then it's vital to know how to properly and safely use the backup, especially in severe conditions. The motor is not to be used as a fail-safe. There is no true fail-safe on a sailboat.

It's essentially the same as having four-wheel drive on a vehicle. Four-wheel drive can get you out of some very difficult situations but it should never be used to carelessly and confidently drive around in a snowstorm without learning proper driving skills or to be fully relied upon as a false sense of security.


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