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Improving the AI trolley on soft beach sand
http://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=11284		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Geoff [ Fri Nov 28, 2008 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Improving the AI trolley on soft beach sand
Hi folks,

Many of you may have found that even the soft optional Hobie wheels are not perfect on uneven soft beach sand, especially if you add any thing heavy to the AI. I was also unwilling to fork out the money required, and managed to buy some wheels very cheaply (approx US$10 each) at a local auto shop. They are probably for a furniture trolley. But they will eventually corrode out. Here are some photos:
Image
Image

The tires are marked 4.10/3.50 - 4
It appears to be a 4 inch ID, and a 10 inch OD and a 3 inch width.

A fellow on another yak forum suggested doubling up the wheels, by bolting through the wheels, and I must admit that's attractive, as you could keep the standard AI frame, but what I need is a source of really cheap pneumatic tires with plastic hubs, in 10 inch OD, 3 or 4 inch tire width for a 1/2 inch shaft. Any ideas? You can certainly find lots of these in China, but I would have to buy 500, at maybe $3 each.

Geoff.
Author:  stringy [ Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:17 am ]
Post subject: 
G'Day Geoff,
I used those wheels for a year on my original homemade cart. I got 6 months of use out of them before the tyres wore out and the bearings rusted loose. I had no joy sourcing cheap plastic wheels here. The best I could do was $30 each at Reflex. I went with the Hobie Heavy duty upgrade wheels in the end. They are actually a Wheeleze product that you can get for $12 in the US. No such luck here though! :(

PS-Be careful the rim bolts are tight as I have had them work loose with disastrous results as the tube expands and distorts the rim.
Author:  janetandfred [ Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:42 pm ]
Post subject:  moving kayaks
We use the Wheeleez to move all of our kayaks at the beach. We have two ocean kayaks, a Revolution and an AI. The larger inflatable wheels make moving even the heavy AI easy enough for me (5'2", 120#). I can manage to get any of the kayaks on and off the wheels by myself also. Compared to the small wheels from Hobie, the Wheeleez are a major improvement. They run about $140.00, wait I take that back, I just checked and at kayakfishingstuff.com they are $199.00 and backordered. We saw them on sale at the end of the summer last year for $140.00. We first got the hard wheel type for $109, but I sold them on ebay last summer. We now have two of the balloon tire types.
Author:  Geoff [ Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: moving kayaks
janetandfred wrote:
We use the Wheeleez to move all of our kayaks at the beach. We have two ocean kayaks, a Revolution and an AI. The larger inflatable wheels make moving even the heavy AI easy enough for me (5'2", 120#).


Are you using the standard AI frame, with different wheels, or a totally different frame? $199 looks like you get a frame too?
Image
The Wheeleez Kayak Kart

I thought the Hobie soft wheels were from Wheeleez too? Are they smaller than this wheel? The site says that Wheeleez cart has wheels 11.8''x7'' (30x18 cm) and are US$66 each. That sounds pretty big. Does any one know what size the Hobie soft wheels are? The hard standard wheels are 25 x 6 cm. But even the Hobie web site does not specify the size of the soft wheels.

Geoff.
Author:  paddlefisher [ Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:50 am ]
Post subject:  wheeleez and zolzer
The wheeleez wheel used by Hobie are much smaller then the ones on the piccie.

There is no size mentioned on the wheel either!
overal diameter aprox 22cm
width 11 cm
rim diameter aprox 11.5 cm
Max payload 35 kg, 77lbs
pressure range 0.14/0.20 BAR, 2/3 PSI

In 4wd tires the max payload diminishes when the pressure is let out for soft sand driving, I suppose that applies also for these tires.

In Germany there are foldable canoe carts from Zolzer which have got an offroad loadability of 150 kg, I use one even behind my bike.
Only on soft sand I use the wheeleez cart.

http://cgi.ebay.de/zoelzer-zoelzer-DE-L ... dZViewItem

PF
Author:  Geoff [ Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:28 am ]
Post subject: 
Many thanks peddlefisher. I just spent an age trying to find that info on the web, but its almost as if Hobie has managed to hide the dimensions completely. But I did find this post on another forum:

So it looks like if you want a good cart, you have to buy the Wheeleez one, but some folks hate the fact that it straps on, while others hate the way the Hobie one fits in the scupper holes. Personally I have no problems with the scupper hole idea. But the Hobie frame wont allow for those big Wheeleez wheels to clear.

Geoff.
Author:  stringy [ Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
Geoff,
Hobie use Wheeleze wheels, the specs for which can be found here:
http://www.wheeleez.com/beach-wheel-specs.php
and here:
http://www.wheeleez.com/utilitywheels.php
The Hobie Trax cart uses the 22cm PVC wheel. I have found that the AI needs a bigger wheel for soft sand especially if you want to wheel it fully laden.
The new KFS cart looks like it may be better as it uses the 30cm balloon wheel:
http://www.kayakfishingstuff.com/Mercha ... ry_Code=kw
I have tried to source these wheels here and once again drew a blank. KFS will ship internationally but with shipping and the poor exchange rate it won't be cheap! :(
Author:  TIDALWAVE [ Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  DO IT YOURSELF CART
I found a website which shows how to build a Hobie Kayak cart yourself, out of PVC pipes and in-expensive wheels: www.kayakshops.com/noyo_pacific/kayak_cart.htm

I have already gotten the PVC pipes and bought some wheels from Northern Tool & Equipment (up here in Minnesota)...Total cost was
less than $30! I used semi-pneumatic wheels
You only need a saw for cutting the pipes to length and some solvent/glue to assemble them.

Even if the bearings corrode eventually, the wheels are so cheap ($8 a piece) that it will cheaper to replace than install more expensive wheels

I will send in a photo when I have it assembled.
Author:  Geoff [ Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
I FOUND it. Thanks to Peddlefisher. The Hobie Trax wheels are these ones:

Image

Available for US$59 for two. But I think we have decided they are too small, 22 x 13cm (8.7x5â€
Author:  Geoff [ Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DO IT YOURSELF CART
TIDALWAVE wrote:
Even if the bearings corrode eventually, the wheels are so cheap ($8 a piece) that it will cheaper to replace than install more expensive wheels

I will send in a photo when I have it assembled.


Well that was my rationale for putting some AUS$13.00 wheels on the standard Hobie frame. But I want something much wider, and larger now. And so far I have not found anything better than Wheeleez. But they are more expensive.

Hi stringy, this KFS cart is not bad at all:
Image

But its US$229 plus shipping. Wheels are 11.8" X 7" But it comes apart and will apparently fit into the kayak. The Hobie round hatch ID is just under 9", so it would have to stow in the front hatch.

From Wheeleez you can make up an axle, two tyres, and clips for about US$146 plus postage to have a wider stance, with really big wheels, in this case the same as above, 11.8 x 7". But that won't fold into a hatch. Or buy their cart for US$199, but its the strap on type.

Other than price, the KFS Kart looks the perfect solution for an AI. I think I will start saving.

Geoff.
Author:  Darwinian [ Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Question: Why can't I just drag the hull across the sand? Why do I need wheels? Does it create too much abrasion on the hull? I plan on sailing off Padre Island. The ocean is on one side and the Big Lagoon on the other. The east four miles of the island has no roads and is between 50 to 100 yards or so wide. It is basically a sand spit. Why couldn't I just drag the hull across the sand depending on which body of water I wanted to sail in?

Hey, this is a serious question. What negative effects could I expect if I drag the AI, just the hull and carry the AMAS, across the sand?

Ron Patterson, Pensacola, Florida
Author:  Geoff [ Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
Darwinian wrote:
Question: Why can't I just drag the hull across the sand? Why do I need wheels? Does it create too much abrasion on the hull? I plan on sailing off Padre Island. The ocean is on one side and the Big Lagoon on the other. The east four miles of the island has no roads and is between 50 to 100 yards or so wide. It is basically a sand spit. Why couldn't I just drag the hull across the sand depending on which body of water I wanted to sail in?

Hey, this is a serious question. What negative effects could I expect if I drag the AI, just the hull and carry the AMAS, across the sand?

Ron Patterson, Pensacola, Florida


Well I would never do that, based on the wear that you will get. Even though my 25 year old Hobie cat was only subject to hitting the beach when completing a sail, it nevertheless wore right though, as all of them did, over the years. Which is why many cat guys invested in expensive beach wheels, to avoid contact with the sand. And at least a fiberglass hull could be built up, I don't believe you can do that with plastic. Currently I am trying to avoid all contact with sand, which is why I fit the trolley while approaching the shore, and wheel the AI up onto the sand. Everytime.

Geoff.
Author:  Darwinian [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:08 am ]
Post subject: 
Geoff, thanks for the advice. I must admit I am a little shocked. I had assumed a little abrasion would occur but I never dreamed the hull would wear completely through. I have been running small fiberglass boats up on the beach for years and have never even wore through the gelcoat.

However I will take your advice and be extremely careful from now on. Thanks again.
Author:  Phil [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:38 am ]
Post subject: 
Ron,
I think you will be just fine pulling it through the sand on the beaches we have here on Emerald coast. I have been pulling all my yaks for years on this sand and have had no problems.
If I were having to go on gravel, asphalt or other hard surfaces as well as sand than I would use the dolly.
Author:  TIDALWAVE [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Vinyl Keel Protector
I had a shallow draft swing keel fibreglas sailboat which had a vinyl keel protector which allowed the boat to be brought up on beach sand.
The protector was a long v-shaped vinyl strip which had a 3-M waterproof
adhesive applied to the inner surface and it came in fairly long strips.
Would such a protector work on the Vaka keel of an AI?
Would there possibly be too much drag?
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