Two Person AI

stringy, I agree with your observations.

The nose of the tandem appears to be higher above the water than the Island - see ~1:17 as you look down the hull to the front.

There appears to be a access hatch infront of the aft pedals, in the back area behind the fore passenger ~1:32 look left of the paddle blade.

Also

There is not a lot of nose, nor much of a trunk area. The trunk area is glimpsed briefly at end of the film. There is a carring handle visible and the wheels lashed into the trunk. The twist n' stow rudder looks different. Seems to lack the bungie tie down and the lines protrusions one sees on the Island.

I don't think the tandem is too much longer than the Island, the abbreviated nose & trunk leave room for the 2nd person. Plus if it is higher and wider the added length is not necessary for weight displacment. so maybe only 17feet . Heck the Oasis tandem is only 14feet 6 inches.

The increased ama size, and as they look while sailing, may mean less "buried ama". At ~:40 the Yellow Island in the distance clearly has his winward ama flying high. Which means the yellow Islands lee ama would be buried. But look at the tandem's lee ama, visible in the same shot - staying up on top of the water. In fact during the entire video - the tandem has little to no ama "flying" or "buring". At ~1:37 again compare the red Island heeling & winward ama flying while the tandem stays even keeled.

The tandem appears to be handeling the chop/waves better than the Island. Islands appear to be bouncing around while the tandem plows ahead.

Hobie sure knows how to be a tease when they want to be

I'm obviously excited about the boat. More speed/performance from the tandem over the Island would be very nice, add the jib.

Dog's observation about the rails (prominent at 2:02 )would indicate some sort of traveling pulley?

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Is it an illusion or is the vertical on the akas greater putting the amas closer to the water?

I don't think they'd go alot longer. The weight increase would hamper the ability for much of their market for this boat to lift it onto a roof rack making a trailer almost mandatory.

Dave

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A Hobie Sport and 2 Hobie Adventure Island's - Papaya & Hibiscus - I couldn't make up my mind so like I usually end up doing with lures I bought both and hid the credit card statement

It looks longer to me as well. I'd guess the hull is "taller" meaning that when at rest, the amas have to be lower so that both are barely in the water.

I don't agree, for several reasons.

First, a jib means at least a few more control lines (two sheets and a furler). One of the great things about the Island is the simplicity.

Second, look how far forward that mast is. There is no good way I can see to move it back toward the center of the boat, as is common on sloops. That means the jib will necessarily be very small.

Third, even tiny jib furlers are pretty expensive. If it's not a furling jib, that means it will need a tack line and a halyard. Four new lines instead of three.

Fourth, the mast and sail must be bigger, and inserting the mast with a furled jib hanging off of it might start to get awkward because of the extra weight and windage you are lifting.

Fifth, while a sloop rig can almost always outperform a cat rig upwind because the slot between main and jib directs more flow to the mainsail, things change on a reach, and even more on a run. When running downwind, mainsails tend to "blanket" jibs, unless running directly downwind "wing on wing". When reaching and especially when running, the performance will depend on the number of USEFUL square feet of sail. It doesn't really matter how many sails, just how many square feet are catching wind. People are rigging whisker poles on AI's for this reason, but whisker poles are more commonly used on jibs. We'll see TWO whisker poles and all associated hardware when people are trying to spread two sails out for downwind runs. More complication, and the same effect can be achieved just by putting all those square feet into one sail.

Sixth, jibs are even worse than mainsails about blocking your vision. Another window. See the recent window cracking thread.

Seventh, if you spread out the square feet over two sails, especially with two windows, it will cost more.

Eighth, have you seen the various contraptions people have made to keep the jibs up and clear of the mainsail's top batten? Hobie would no doubt do a neater job, but it's really not an easy problem to solve.

Ninth, getting back to that upwind performance thing... the boat will have two Mirage Drives. It will "motorsail" upwind just fine with all that power.

Tenth, windrider has already done a pretty good job on a two person tri with main and jib. From what I've read, it takes people twenty minutes to rig one of those at the ramp. If we arrive at the ramp at the same time, I'll be out of sight by the time they launch. More rig time ends up translating into less frequent use.

Just thought of another one, based on my use. It's not unusual for me to step the mast while on the water because there are two bridges between my place and the open harbor. Someone (not me) is going to have to get out to the bow to unhook the furler, or it will have to be rigged to a tack line.

Either way, keeping the jib and furler out of the drink while stepping/unstepping out on the water is going to be tricky.

Tom all excellent points on the jib addition.

BTW I'm the one with the cracked window, or was before I fixed it ($230).

My Island jib rig only uses 2 lines. One to raise & one to control. It has a window because it is the small kayak sail from Hobie. But, it is a pain to use, and only useful in wind under 10mph - otherwise its too much.

I mount my jib after main is raised and furled.

Ya, not much room in front of the mast and I can't believe they would move the mast. I wonder how much main sail and mast height the tandem has?

There is no telling what clever contraption Hobie has come up with for a final "sloop configuration". The best of both worlds would be to offer the one sail as standard with the option to purchase a jib sail kit as a future add on.

Turbo fins and dodgers are add-ons

I guess I gotta agree that jib expense and hassle as a standard item would not make much sense. I want the boat as cheaply as possible Having a little more sailing speed than the Island would be really nice.

This is very exciting indeed! And I also think, with the front position of the mast, Hobie clearly chose a jib-less rig.

By the way, what about the dagger board? I guess the line along the free-board could be for furling the main, but it could also be for controlling the dagger board from the aft position. I cannot see it on the video, but I guess the dagger board will be a bit aft of the front drive (this may be the correct position with respect to the helm balance).

To add more speculations: I guess this thing must be well over 5 meters (5,10?), and quite heavy (at least 35kg?). But once in the water with this design, I think it could be soloed quite well. It may be even faster soloed than the AI (that front hatch is ideal for adding front weight). What would the sail area be? 8m2? Beam 75cm?

I was dreaming of (and saving for) an AI, but now there is even more to dream of!

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skua

Doh! I forgot that was your window.

If you use only two lines, the jib must remain attached to the bow. That means it can either be up or on deck, never put away until you get to shore. That's why I have a tack line on my Klepper foldable's jib, and why I put one on my AI jib as well. In both boats, I can drop the jib and pull it back into the cockpit with me.

Also, I wonder what you're doing about tacking. Jibs generally have two sheet lines, one for each tack. If you don't have that, the sheet must get around the mast somehow, or be led upwind of the mast on one tack, which would result in poor shape.

Started with 2 control lines - one for each side of the mast - the most typical setup. Found that one line worked just fine as I would pick the side most favorable to the wind. Not great for doing a lot of tacking but it works. Passing the single line to the opposite side was not a big deal either. One control line just eliminated all the line clutter.

Jib was clipped to the front carrying handle - so when lowered it got bungied to the front hatch - otherwise I crawl out and unhook it to stow it totally out of the way.

JIB is a PITA but when I sailed against my wife's AI who had no jib I was faster in 8-10 mph wind. Most times thou it is just not worth the trouble.

One would believe the film displays what the final tandem will look like - Hobie is usually secretive about new items.

On the single AI, the vertical to horizontal proportions of the akas are close to 16% (6 1/2 inches/40 inches).
I froze a few frames from the tandem video and they all came up
with almost exactly the same proportions (about 16%)
So if vertical dimension of the amas is greater than the single...the
ama horizontal reach must be longer (wider stance).
I was unable to find any dimension on the frames where I could measure
a known length.

Making this public at this time and in this way may not have been Hobie's idea.

Particularly if sales of single seaters drop off as people wait for the tandem...

Might get them to rush things along a little?

Dave

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A Hobie Sport and 2 Hobie Adventure Island's - Papaya & Hibiscus - I couldn't make up my mind so like I usually end up doing with lures I bought both and hid the credit card statement

Great video and exciting possibilities! My wife was greatly encouraged by how dry the front cockpit looked in the video! (She's never been out in the AI).

Hobie may need a little help naming this new tandem. What about Archipelago? Maybe to long. Since this has the potential to be the fastest and most versatile boat in the fleet -- perhaps the Hobie Express!

If they continue in the same vein of lame land based references for a boat they could go with

Hobie Adventure Peninsula

or even

Hobie Adventure Isthmus



Dave

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A Hobie Sport and 2 Hobie Adventure Island's - Papaya & Hibiscus - I couldn't make up my mind so like I usually end up doing with lures I bought both and hid the credit card statement