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TI: Steering - Temp solution?
http://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=28871		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  TxYackMan [ Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:33 am ]
Post subject:  TI: Steering - Temp solution?
Capn Ron suggested I remove 1 rudder nut/bolt and lock down the rudder with a nylon nut/bolt.

So I did.

Using 1/4" drill bit I drilled out the hole. Very easy, and I can put back the original nut/bolt if this does not work or a better solution comes along.

I have not tried it out yet, probably will be this weekend before I can. Anyway, I post in case someone else wants to try it out as well.

Notice the head of the bolt fits nicely where the nut was located. Which makes tightening it a snap.

On dry land the rudder feels easier to control and of course it will not pop-up. Nylon bolt "just in case" something happens.

What do u think?

Some pics:
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Author:  mmiller [ Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: TI: Steering - Temp solution?
Nice one! Like the original AI set screw, but better.
Author:  ron34422 [ Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: TI: Steering - Temp solution?
Great job Mark!...now run it by your gate and give her a test!...hehehe
Author:  KayakingBob [ Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: TI: Steering - Temp solution?
Good for a test or temporary fix, but seems like a step backward. Had to do that the first year of the AI and it quickly became a PITA!
Author:  bobco [ Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: TI: Steering - Temp solution?
reconlon wrote:
Good for a test or temporary fix, but seems like a step backward. Had to do that the first year of the AI and it quickly became a PITA!


What were the problems? If not being able to twist and stow or pull up the rudder is the issue then perhaps a slight variation on Ron's/Mark's idea/implementation might solve that issue.

Instead of the bolt all the way through rather mount a spring activated bolt that goes through the rudder but protrudes enough out of the movable part of the rudder to snap into the hole that you just drilled out much like a spring activated door latch snaps into the hole to shut the door. When you want to pull up the rudder use Ron's other idea of the spectra line going through the cleat but this time attached to a spring loaded knob that fits into the same hole but on the opposite side of fixed portion of the rudder. When you want to release the rudder to pull it up just pull on the release line that pushes the latch out of its hole which then allows the 2:1 up line to work. If the latch is not too big and ramped gradually it could also pop out under extreme pressure such as hitting a submerged obstacle.

Bob
Author:  KayakingBob [ Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: TI: Steering - Temp solution?
You have to launch the boat, then ether wade around the boat to lock down the rudder, or hang off the back on your gear to do it. Same with landing, which got very interesting in larger shore breaks.

Hopefully Hobie's got this mostly under control and will have their dealers replace/repair or adjust the problem boats to make the rest happy and get this behind us.
Author:  ron34422 [ Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: TI: Steering - Temp solution?
Bob, Have you had any problems with your steering system on your TI?...are you happy with it?
Author:  KayakingBob [ Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: TI: Steering - Temp solution?
ron34422 wrote:
Bob, Have you had any problems with your steering system on your TI?...are you happy with it?
I've had no problems, but am wary, considering the conditions that we sometimes encounter and the problems (and solutions) the original AI rudder entailed. If Hobie made available a good strait up/down rudder replacement I would probably buy one, but I do think the Twist'n'Stow is a wonderful piece of engineering for most Hobie kayaks.
Author:  captain-max [ Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: TI: Steering - Temp solution?
Mark, I'm assuming that you're using an aka brace pin? Looked at my spare pin today, and decided to do the same. However, given the reduced leverage of the rudder versus the aka/ama, I'm going to hacksaw a bit of a groove in the bolt at the head, and at the point where it exits the rudder (and goes into the rudder housing plate). This should allow the rudder to shear the bolt if it hits something hard, instead of ripping away the housing or damaging the rudder. What do you think?
Author:  TxYackMan [ Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: TI: Steering - Temp solution?
Yeah. I say give it a go. I think it does not need a ton of force to hold the rudder down anyway.

My theory is the bolt should sheer and the rudder pin should sheer before ripping off the back end of the boat. (Might be wrong though LOL).
Note: Your are right though, lot more leverage on the Aka.

If this works, then I might not stop here and come up with another way to hold the rudder down. I will be looking at something similar like Capn Ron did on his AI. An external rudder lock down line that attaches to the rudder vs using the normal TI down line via the drum.
Author:  TxYackMan [ Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: TI: Steering - Temp solution?
Curious to hear your results. Did starboard steering improve, is steering tightness improved, etc?
Author:  cliffs2yak [ Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: TI: Steering - Temp solution?
TxYakMan,

Thanks for the share. I'm not experiencing problems with my TI's steering. However I did inspect its operation after reading several posts regarding the issue. Found that my rudder controls has about 2 inches of play. And when the rudder is deployed, there's about a 1/8 inch gap between my rudder and the bottom of its mount. I can pull my rudder away from its mount but it takes more than a pinky. I think it's more like 3lbs or so. Despite these issues, I'm able to reliably steer in 10-15mph winds and 3-4 foot seas. And so I'm thinking that I might be in tolerances.

It seems to be a good idea to drill a hole as you specified just in case. If my steering fails when I'm in marginal conditions, it'll give me the option to deploy your fix while at sea to help get me back to shore. Might be a better option than using a paddle to steer in certain conditions.

Aloha,

cliffs2yak
Author:  bobco [ Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: TI: Steering - Temp solution?
Thinking how to recover should the steering fail is a good strategy. Predrilling a hole between movable and fixed portion of rudder and carrying a pin to insert if down line fails may be one approach. But what to do if you loose the steering line before the 2:1 down line fails. Perhaps thread a spare steering line as Ron did to the outside surface of the TI and tie it to the right steering line but keep it loose until needed. It will be awkward constantly cleating and uncleating to steer but it may be easier than using the paddle.

I visited my Hobie dealer today and he had fixed another TI failed steering line which had broken before the 2:1 down line failed. I showed him where the 2:1 down line was already eroding from abrasion on the right side where it enters the movable section of the rudder. I will constantly check mine after each sailing adventure so it can be replaced before it fails. Eventually I'll have enough stats to know when to expect failure e.g. every 5 - 10 hours of good wind or whatever.

Bob
Author:  ron34422 [ Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TI: Steering - Temp solution?
cliffs2yak, That's a great idea for a back up if your DOWN line fails or parts...I don't think it would help if one of your steering lines breaks...you would need an extra replacement line of some sort to rig to the rudder to steer the boat...
Author:  whosyerbob [ Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: TI: Steering - Temp solution?
I like the solution myself, but will hold off doing it until I hear more feedback. I just picked up our TI from the dealer last night after the latest rudder control line failure and will be taking it out again this weekend.
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