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 Post subject: TI Capacity Legalities
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:02 pm 
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The capacity of the TI is 272kg and the tramps are rated at 90kg.
The hull is certified for 2 people plus gear.
However with the tramps fitted it is possible to carry 3 people and still be under the 272kg limit.
Are there any legal issues with carrying 3 people on board a 2 person boat that anyone may be aware of?
Does Hobie consider 3 people on board a problem if the capacity is not exceeded? :?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:15 am 
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I'd be careful - as Cindy and I discovered last summer, the buckles on the TI tramps can fail and then you can have some real problems on your hands.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:23 am 
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Hey now guys.. I havent even introduced myself here yet (was waiting to do it with pictures) but just bought a TI with every intention to haul my two kids on the tramps and two adults in the boat. If there is a legality issue then I guess there will be a never used TI for sale real quick.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:16 am 
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That's a great question! We all know, from reading these forums that the Hobie people don't seem to mind us using our boats to take more then one (AI with tramps) or two (TI with tramps) people.

I had always assumed that under Canadian law, that I am within my legal rights to take two people (on my AI) as long as I have the required life jackets, and other safety equipment, but I never thought of that sticker that you show above. I wonder what would happen if the Canadian Coast Guard saw that I had more people then the boat was designed to carry. My assumption has always been that as long as I'm within the weight limit of my boat, and people are in a logical spot on the boat (ex. the seat, or the tramps) that I wouldn't ever have a problem. But that picture showing two people (I'm assuming my AI has a picture showing one person) makes me wonder.

Matt? Anybody? Are these boats legally allowed to take extra passengers?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:24 pm 
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The label pictured is issued by the European Certification Bureau (Netherlands). You would think the label on your boat would need to be issued from within your own jurisdiction to have legal validity, at least as far as the Coast Guard is concerned.

On the other hand, if someone was injured on your boat, you may be liable if you have exceeded the manufacturer's recommended limit.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:35 pm 
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augaug wrote:
. I wonder what would happen if the Canadian Coast Guard saw that I had more people then the boat was designed to carry. My assumption has always been that as long as I'm within the weight limit of my boat, and people are in a logical spot on the boat (ex. the seat, or the tramps) that I wouldn't ever have a problem. But that picture showing two people (I'm assuming my AI has a picture showing one person) makes me wonder.


Substitute CCG with NSW Maritime and that's exactly what I was thinking augaug! (and yes the AI does only have a 1 person symbol.)

If the addition of the tramps allows an extra person to be carried then maybe they should come with an amended sticker? :wink:
- 2 people + gear =159kg (AI with tramps)
- 3 people + gear = 272kg (TI with tramps)
Those with families could make their own stickers like the ones you see on car windows these days -Dad, Mum, Kids, Dog, etc etc = 272kg! :roll:


Last edited by stringy on Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:36 pm 
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Yes, the labels are specific to the Europe market (required for sale there). The EU sticker seems to imply the design has 2 seats and then a max weight it's able to carry. I can not comment on how that effects legal issues in other countries. I just don't know.

We have always simply listed capacity total weight as the US guideline regardless of number of passengers.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:51 pm 
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Thanks for that Chris and Matt. The carrying capacity should be the guide.
So Hobie are OK with 3 people on the TI as long as capacity is not exceeded.
It does sail well with 3 onboard swapping during tacks! :wink:
I'll make some enquiries with NSW Maritime - though I'm not hopefull I'll get a proper response. My last enquiry re the new PFD laws here gave conflicting info! :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:12 pm 
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mmiller wrote:
Yes, the labels are specific to the Europe market (required for sale there).


This may explain why I hadn't noticed a sticker like this on mine. I know there are yellow warning stickers, but I couldn't tell you what they said. I think my Canadian boat is similar to the U.S.

I'd check my sticker, but that would involve a trip out in the snow, and frankly, it's something I can check in the spring. :)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:25 pm 
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Stringy, here's an extract from NSW Maritime's Boating Handbook:

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They don't mention penalties for non-compliance.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:15 pm 
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chrisj wrote:
Stringy, here's an extract from NSW Maritime's Boating Handbook:

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They don't mention penalties for non-compliance.


That might tend to lure you into a false sense of security. A Penalty Notice or two is one thing but the real problem would be in a disastrous situation when a person was lost or drowned from the craft and afterward the Coroner examined all the circumstances. The number of people on board in relation to the placard on the craft would then be deemed very important to the authorities....Pirate

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:31 pm 
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I totally agree Pirate. It has crossed my mind when I have taken a passenger on my AI. Even if a totally unrelated accident were to occur, such as being hit by a power boat, you could be deemed to be at least partially responsible.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:38 pm 
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Great question Stringy. I may get shot down here but as soon as any authority gets involved, why is it that the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. Personally, I believe in common sense sailing. Now I know that many people may not have common sense and the laws are made to help protect them, which is fair enough. But if I feel that taking 2 out on the AI is safe, I'll do it. If I want to go across the lake on a gentle breeze without my life jacket on, I'll do it. There is no way I'm going to start reading the maritime rules to see if I'm allowed.

I remember as a kid, me and a mate spent a weekend building a canoe out of a sheet of old rusty galvanised iron and some roofing tar. We spent the next weekend on the creek laughing and fishing until it sank. Not a life jacket to be seen. Now I know you blokes have similar stories and smile when you think about them, and I'm sure we have come in the right direction as far as safety, but haven't we gone far too far when we all know that the whole real reason for rules is not for better safety, but for revenue raising ?

( now where is that shield and armour? )

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:04 pm 
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Slaughter wrote:
Great question Stringy. I may get shot down here but as soon as any authority gets involved, why is it that the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. Personally, I believe in common sense sailing. Now I know that many people may not have common sense and the laws are made to help protect them, which is fair enough. But if I feel that taking 2 out on the AI is safe, I'll do it. If I want to go across the lake on a gentle breeze without my life jacket on, I'll do it. There is no way I'm going to start reading the maritime rules to see if I'm allowed.

I remember as a kid, me and a mate spent a weekend building a canoe out of a sheet of old rusty galvanised iron and some roofing tar. We spent the next weekend on the creek laughing and fishing until it sank. Not a life jacket to be seen. Now I know you blokes have similar stories and smile when you think about them, and I'm sure we have come in the right direction as far as safety, but haven't we gone far too far when we all know that the whole real reason for rules is not for better safety, but for revenue raising ?

( now where is that shield and armour? )


Agreed Slaughter but our common sense approach isn't followed by the Authorities. Consequently we should all be mindful of the consequences of our actions, regardless of our decision whether to keep or break the rules....Pirate

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:09 pm 
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Slaughter wrote:
haven't we gone far too far when we all know that the whole real reason for rules is not for better safety, but for revenue raising ?

To make matters worse, Maritime Services is now "self-funding", which means they get to keep the revenue from any fines, so they have a strong financial incentive for finding reasons to book you.

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