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Options for hoisting over a steep sand incline
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Author:  mkrawats [ Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:52 am ]
Post subject:  Options for hoisting over a steep sand incline
I wish to launch my TI directly in the ocean. One of the closest ocean beach launch options to my home has a sand cliff with a steep 45 degree incline. The boat needs to be hauled 30' up this cliff. The cliff is too steep and too long to single-handedly haul the TI up this incline. It requires either human or mechancial assistance. Additional human assistance will not always be available to me. I wish to be able to perform this task single-handedly.

I am researching my options to obtain mechanical advantage to haul the boat up the hill.

I am currently considering purchasing a Maasdam Rope Puller. It costs $90 USD and includes 100' of 1/2" dia. rope.

Image

Does anyone have any experience with these ratchets?

I have several questions and concern.
- This device will get very sandy. How will sand affect the mechanism?
- How much leverage does it provide?
- How slow/fast is it? How many minutes will it take to move the TI 50' across the sand?

How do Hobie Cat catamaran owners pull their heavier boats up the beach when they are short-handed?

Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.
Author:  NOHUHU [ Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Options for hoisting over a steep sand incline
It would work but may be very slow.

Should we assume there are no trees, poles, cars or anchor points? If you have them, then a simple block and tackle will lift that sukka. Spare Harken blocks and sheeting line, like the Harken 40mm Carbo Fiddle [H2655] used on the TI are about right for this. They make ratcheting blocks too.

You can try a test. Tie an anchored rope to the S-hook of your sheet and try to drag the boat about 10 ft using the existing sheet and cleats. See if you think that will do it.

Can a cart be used? If not, it may be easier to drag - even by hand- if you brought some 12' lengths of SCH40 PVC to connect as a slick track. Or a simple 20' plastic tarp. It will slide like mad across this. Just don't let go! :oops:
Author:  kayakman7 [ Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Options for hoisting over a steep sand incline
If that come-a-long is anything like mine, you will get 3-4" inches per stroke and it won't play well with sand...

J
Author:  Salty Dawg [ Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Options for hoisting over a steep sand incline
I use a 1,000 lb hand winch for my AI hooked to my Malone Kayak trailer to recover my Kayak up steep inclines which is also what I used when I had my Hobie Cat.
They are fairly inexpensive, can be mounted to just about anything and can be washed with fresh water to get the corrosive salt off.
Image

http://www.harborfreight.com/1000-lb-ca ... 65688.html
Author:  mkrawats [ Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Options for hoisting over a steep sand incline
A hand winch will not work for this particular location since the trailer cannot be brought anywhere near the water. I tried the come-a-long. You guys are right. It was too slow. It moved 10 feet per minute.

There are 2 anchor points available at the top of the hill. My guardian anchor and a safety guard rail. Now, I wish to try a block and tackle solution.

The fully loaded TI on my beach cart can weigh 300+ lbs. The Harken 40mm Carbo Fiddle [H2655] has a SWL of 485 lbs. This is good. But I wonder if all the other Hobie blocks in the entire TI mainsheet system are rated for a similiar SWL? I don't want to bust anything in the system.
Author:  sailpowerd [ Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Options for hoisting over a steep sand incline
Have seen 2 solutions to your problem:
1 Mount a winch, sailboat self tailing or trailer type, on a flat piece of plywood with the winch in a vertical or upright position. Secure that at the top of the incline with screw in type sand anchor or just a rod driven deep into the sand.

2 12 volt battery with appropriate electric winch/windlass, also mouted on a flat piece of plywood.
I have neighbors on the beach that use both systems. They are slow, but if you only need it for the incline would work.
Author:  kayakman7 [ Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Options for hoisting over a steep sand incline
mkrawats wrote:
A hand winch will not work for this particular location since the trailer cannot be brought anywhere near the water. I tried the come-a-long. You guys are right. It was too slow. It moved 10 feet per minute.

There are 2 anchor points available at the top of the hill. My guardian anchor and a safety guard rail. Now, I wish to try a block and tackle solution.

The fully loaded TI on my beach cart can weigh 300+ lbs. The Harken 40mm Carbo Fiddle [H2655] has a SWL of 485 lbs. This is good. But I wonder if all the other Hobie blocks in the entire TI mainsheet system are rated for a similiar SWL? I don't want to bust anything in the system.

The harken blocks can handle dragging 300 pounds up an incline but the 3:1 advantage given by the main sheet might not be enough. You will still have to exert 100 pounds of pulling force to move the boat. It might be worth buying two triple pulleys, a triple and a quad, or two quads which will give, respectively, 6:1, 7:1, & 8:1. Technically, the 100 pound figure is for a straight lift and you are dragging up an incline which reduces the lift needed but adds lots of friction, so 100 pounds should be close. Try it with the sheet, can't hurt. you don't even need to restring the sheet with longer line. Run a long line down hill with a loop every 20~30', mount the main sheet to the bow padeye, put the tack hook on the sheet in the first loop of the long line and pull till the boat is at the loop, repeat.

J
Author:  KayakingBob [ Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Options for hoisting over a steep sand incline
I wouldn't trust just the bow padeye to handle the mostly vertical dragging weight of a fully loaded TI up an embankment. Better to also connect to one or both of the aka X-bars to "spread the load".
Author:  NOHUHU [ Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Options for hoisting over a steep sand incline
Very good point Bob makes.

I was only suggesting using the main sheet for a quick test on a flat surface. For the beach incline I would buy some matching Harkens/sheet line and keep them as spare parts for the boat. That way, you'll get the uninterrupted pull length you need and avoid stressing any of the rigging you depend on for safe sailing.

Though honestly, I think the real trick is reducing the drag. Depending on the terrain, a cheap roll of the right plastic sheeting or even a tarp "sled" would enhance your pulling force dramatically.

If it works, you'll look stronger and smarter at the same time,..

We would love to see pictures of this hill from hell. Are wheels being ruled out?
Author:  CaptnChaos [ Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Options for hoisting over a steep sand incline
Mark, I was just looking through all the junk in my garage this morning and thought of an idea that no one has mentioned up to now. You could get a used electric wheel chair, remove the components, and build a battery powered TI mover.

With this system you could drive your boat up the hill ... even completely loaded. This might be a fairly straightforward project too. I envision a 2 piece system. The motorized system in the front of the boat and a set of TI beach wheels in the back.

Think of all the possibilities using a setup like this ...
Author:  jerinaldi [ Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Options for hoisting over a steep sand incline
I had a similar situation getting access to the Potomac River down a steep hill. Ultimately, I ended up just taking the boat apart and making 5 or 6 trips back and forth and setting it all up on the river bank.
Author:  56kz2slow [ Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Options for hoisting over a steep sand incline
Is it always the same steep hill?

If so, my vote goes to the boat winch. I have a similar issue with my boat, I used a large galvanized angle iron bracket (dock hardware), bolted the bracket to a tree and bolted the boat winch to the bracket.
Author:  mkrawats [ Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Options for hoisting over a steep sand incline
CaptnChaos wrote:
With this system you could drive your boat up the hill ... even completely loaded. {snip} The motorized system in the front of the boat and a set of TI beach wheels in the back.


Jim, it is great that you are always thinking big. Could we control the direction of the motor with the steering lines? Can you imagine the looks in the sunbathers faces... seeing my pimped TI-mobile, cruising up and down the beach? Lend me your haka benches, and we can carry a handful of riders too.

NOHUHU, the boat sits on an Appel Beach Cart with 42cm Wheeleez Polyurethane Beach Wheels. Even on a beach cart, it is too difficult to single-handedly pull everything up a 45 degree slope. Below is a photo of the cliff. It is a from the north side of the South Lake Worth Inlet. It is one of several unguarded beaches in Palm Beach County where parking is available and there are no restrictions in launching watercraft. The Altantic Ocean causes the sand shelf to erode, leaving these steep 45 cliffs.

Image

Jerinaldi, this is exactly what we had to do, make half a dozen trips up and down the hill, with the help of several "spectators". Without the help of these spectators, my TI would still be sitting at the bottom of this cliff. The next time we go sailing here, these spectators may grow smarter and evacuate the beach when they see us returning from a sail.

56kz2slow, with the TI being so easy to transport, we like to launch the boat at different locations along the ocean. This cliff scenario can be found at many Atlantic Ocean beaches. Not all locations will always have a tree or safety guard rail at the top of the cliff. In these instances, I was hoping my Guardian anchor could act as the anchor at the top of the cliff.
Author:  56kz2slow [ Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Options for hoisting over a steep sand incline
Ah, you're in a different situation as me. I have a waterfront campsite, I always launch/beach from the same exact spot, that's why I permanently bolted a boat winch to a tree. Obviously, that would not work for you. You need a portable solution.
Author:  jerinaldi [ Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Options for hoisting over a steep sand incline
Yes, the "making several trips" approach was a very sweaty affair.
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