Hobie Island - Rules and limitations

Blasius :
I only posted the pic of my plaque because
Maurizio stated
"the problem being in Italy :
1 ) my TANDEM ISLAND lacks the regular CE mark ( European Community ) small plaque mandatory specification of the law."

must have been something in the translation.

I looked it up and the:
Windrider 17
WETA Trimaran
Laser Performance Laser

all have CE 'C' ratings

Just my personal opinion, but I would prefer to be out in my TI in really harsh wind and seas (over 25 mph, and 4 ft waves) than any of the boats listed above, not because it's a sturdier boat (it's not) but because the sail is furlable, and has the mirage drive for propulsion.

Actually I was out last Sunday, the plan was to go out sailing with a friend who has a trifoiler, ( my TI has hydrofoils but they only work in winds over 15-20 mph so I seldom use them). When I got to the launch he had already came back in saying the winds were too high and he didn't want to damage his Trifoiler. The winds were around 25 mph (honestly about 5mph higher than I'm normally comfortable with). Shortly afterward 3 F18 cats came struggling back into the harbor, they had all capsized out in the water and were coming in for refuge, we had to help them manage their boats getting into shore (pretty hairy). I've been out in those type conditions before (actually many times), and set my boat up for launch, planning to go out. Unfortunately though my wing jib when I put that up was acting strange, when I built it a yr ago I tested it in 30 mph winds, and there were no problems, however when I raised the jib Sunday it began to flap like a flag (it was designed not to do that), on close examination after a year of heavy use, some of the re-enforcements at the trailing edge had worn out, causing the sail to flap wildly, so I had to furl it back up and call it a day.

I'm actually surprised the TI does not have a CE 'C' rating. Personally I prefer to be out in a TI in high winds/rough seas, over any of the 'C' rated boats above, but that's just my opinion. ( disclaimer: I have my TI re-enforced in specific areas, and it's rigged for open water, and has a gas emergency backup motor, so it's not a stock out of the factory TI)
Bob

Bob

Actually Bob, I also think that the TI should qualify in "C" category.

As I understand it, "C" category is defined as follows:-


I am sure many of us have been out in their AI or TI in such conditions. Not comfortable, but entirely doable.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

I have not read all links in this thread but I am a little bit curiuos about what is really stated here.
CE design class D is a design class where Hobie states what the vessel is designed for.
Meaning rules and regulations for the manufactorer of the vessel.

That should not limit the actual use of the vessel.
In Sweden (an European country) I have never heard of anyone getting a fine for using a small craft vessel not according to its CE design class.
There are lots of other factors that determines if the actual use is dangerous or not.
Starting with the skills and competence of the captain.

br thomas

After a quick google it appears that the recreational craft directive, that requires CE certification does not apply to kayaks.

So print out this page, waterproof it, and wave it at anyone who says different!

http://www.conformance.co.uk/adirective ... p?id=boats


Cc

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May the odds be ever in your favor..

I know Maurizio, he lives in Italy (Rome), I talked with him yesterday and he said me that he hadn't realized that the label in the front of his TI was the CE Marking, so he apologized for the wrong post, probably he will remove it from the tread.


I have read (almost) all your posts in this forum and you are one of my favourite writers and source of inspiration.
I totally agree with you, and that's why I decided to buy an Hobie Island
Thanks
Biagio

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Biagio

Your reasoning is exactly what I would like to listen and state officially.
The italian law defines the navigation limits for the CE Marked watercrafts referring to the category to which it belongs, according my understanding (I hope to be wrong) it means that an Island can sail only in protected areas and very easy weather/sea conditions (Beahofort 4/Waves Height 0,3 m).
That is what is making me really surprised, it could be I am reasoning in too restrictive way. But I have no other evidence that I am wrong.

Biagio

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Biagio

You are right but it applies to kayaks (Human powered boats), not to an Island that is considered a Sailing Trimaran.

Biagio

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Biagio

People are clearly sailing AI/TIs in the EU outside the "C" designated conditions. The questions is, "Is anyone getting a citation from the authorities?" If not, keep sailing.

AI/TIs are clearly capable of sailing in Beaufort Scale winds of 4-5 (6 is pushing it a bit.) To limit these boats to Beaufort Scale of 3 is ridiculous.

If Italian authorities enforce the "C" designation for AI/TIs then it is up to the users & Hobie Italy or wherever to get an exception. Use the recently completed WaterTribe EC2014 as an example where people routinely sail these boats 3-10 miles off shore, including at night.

Keith

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2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

er...
so they are CE marked so it doesn't matter.

well spotted.


extract from art. 2:
This Directive shall not apply to the following products:
(a) with regard to the design and construction requirements set out in Part A of Annex I:
....
(ii) canoes and kayaks designed to be propelled solely by human power, gondolas and pedalos;

thats me out as my revo turns from being a kayak to a sailing vessel when i unfurl the hobie sail then

somebody should break it to these chaps as well http://kayaksailingmagazine.com/

CC

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May the odds be ever in your favor..

You might have to come and sail down here to Australia Blasius and de-stress a bit. How can you ever get out and enjoy yourself with thoughts that you may be breaking some kind of rule or regulation. The last thing on my mind is whether or not I conform to somebody's code. Sure, I double check that all safety gear is on board and in order, but quite frankly I couldn't care less if the Maritime Police ping me for having my hat on back to front. I'm out there to enjoy myself.

As an example, I carry 2 life jackets. The one I prefer to wear doesn't conform to the Australian Standards. The other does conform, yet would be absolutely useless in a capsize situation. Which one would you wear ?

P.S. Looking forward to seeing some photos from Sicily

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Don't take life too seriously................it ain't permanent.

Thank you so much for your encouragement, that is exactly what I was expecting from you all!
I add some details of my life:
I am currently working in Oman, I will be back to my wonderfull Island next April 16th, and then I will do my best to launch my new toy.
I will post some pictures from Sicily with my AI as soon I can, if you want you can check here the location where I live:
https://www.google.it/maps/place/Palerm ... 2c233bd880

Everybody in this forum wants to plan a trip to Sicily, is more than welcome, just let me know.

Regarding Australia, I can only say that is one of my dreaming lands, if you can arrange a labor visa for me I will thank you very much.

Biagio

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Biagio

Italian authorities can apply "C Category", but according to the European Community laws it can be applied by any EC country in Europe and be valid accross the EC. Hobie has no branch in Italy, every Hobie products is distributed in Europe from Hobie Europe that is located in Holland.
It would be great if Hobie Europe, would take care of a new classification ("C category would be more than enough" for Hobie Island products, so that every Island Owner in Europe would be happier

Biagio

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Biagio

the very sensitive issue, comes from the attitude of the dealers from all over Europe which highlight the characteristics and rules in Hobie catamarans on their websites, but they are "dumb as a fish" on the news on the island.
  This led me to the error of assessment.
   fusioneng made ​​me rather clearly

I apologize personally with the HOBIE for my misjudgment.

Sorry, it is now my mistake. I said "C" when I meant "D".

So my statement should have read:

If Italian authorities enforce the "D" designation for AI/TIs then it is up to the users & Hobie Italy or wherever to get an exception. Use the recently completed WaterTribe EC2014 as an example where people routinely sail these boats 3-10 miles off shore, including at night.

Keith

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2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

Ok.
But it doesn't change the considerations so much.
"D Category" is enforced by Hobie Europe located in Holland on behalf of Hobie USA (manifacturer) and valid in every european country and every european user must be aware of that and use the AI/TI trimaran accordingly.

Biagio

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Biagio