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 Post subject: Re: Cooper Anchors
PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:43 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:17 pm
Posts: 426
Location: Austin Texas
Here's a photo of my Cooper anchor rig.
Anchor - splice to 10 FT 1/4" nylon rope -shackle to 10 Ft. 1/4" chain - shackle to 50 FT 3/8" nylon rope
The rope splices were pretty easy to do after watching a YouTube video.
I made another 50 FT. 3/8" rope with eyes on both ends to extend the anchor if needed or to use as a shore line.

Thanks for all of the info posted that helped me do this project !

Chris

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 Post subject: Re: Cooper Anchors
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 12:01 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 2863
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Very nice work Chris. That looks like an ideal setup. Well done! 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Cooper Anchors
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:36 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 3323
Location: South Florida
Please tell me how you think the Cooper Blue will work in the muck that we have throughout much of the Everglades.

Keith

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"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

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 Post subject: Re: Cooper Anchors
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 4:33 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:17 pm
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Location: Austin Texas
I'll report back on the Cooper after using it. Our lake is mostly muck on the bottom.
- chris


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 Post subject: Re: Cooper Anchors
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:08 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:27 am
Posts: 70
Location: Perth, Western Australia
tonystott wrote:
Johnny, you have connected the chain to the anchor in such a way that the performance of the anchor will be compromised. The design of these plastic anchors relies on the concentration of the lead weight inside it, to allow the point of the anchor to bury into sand. The additional weight of chain lying along the top of the anchor like that will cause the anchor to lie on its side, rather than digging into the seabed. If you look at the diagram from Cooper's own website posted elsewhere in this thread, you will see that Cooper does not connect chain directly to the anchor, for this reason.


Hi Tony,
I've just been looking at the Cooper website and they don't have a problem with connecting chain directly to the anchor. http://cooperanchors.com.au/technical-info/

Chain or no chain seems to be more to do with scope. Unless I've missed something......


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 Post subject: Re: Cooper Anchors
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 11:26 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
Posts: 2893
Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Colin,I didn't rely on the Cooper anchor website, as I carried out my own definitive testing and will back my observations, given that the website never touched on the issue of separating chain from anchor. Generally, chain (or some other heavy weight) is used to lower the angle of force applied to the anchor, with the closer to horizontal being the best. However the Cooper anchor design is quite unique, being made of lightweight plastic, with a mass of lead in the "sweet spot" inside the head. It is therefore best to avoid having any weight in a place where it could upset the dynamics of the design.

Here are the results on my own tests... Please carry out these tests yourself so you gain a proper understanding of how the Cooper anchor actually works.

Test methodology.
1. Hold anchor horizontally at shoulder level and drop it into (say) 500mm of water, on a typical sandy bottom. (This way, you can walk up to the anchor, and see precisely how it is performing (or not)). Note, theoretically, the angle of release of the anchor should be nose down for rope attached, chain first if attached to the tail, and horizontally (guessing here) if chain attached to the head of the anchor.
2. Pull steadily from about 5 metres away, gently at first to simulate normal anchoring procedure.
3. Increase pulling force, noting how much force is needed to drag the anchor.

My findings.
A. The anchor with rope simply attached to the end of the shaft dug its point in and worked as hoped. Really leaning my 140kg weight back resulted in the anchor coming out of the sand, but then digging in again.
B. I added 2 metres of chain about 3 metres away from the anchor. I was unable to uproot the anchor.
C. I added the chain directly to the tail of the anchor. It took several attempts for the anchor to dig in due to the weght of the chain tending to tip the anchor on its side. It is easy to see what is happening during these test conditions, but not so easy when you cannot see the bottom.
D. I shackled chain to the head of the anchor and used a 5mm zip-tie to attach the chain to the tail of the anchor. The anchor lay on its side on the bottom due to the weight of chain lying on top of it, and totally failed to grab the bottom. Try it yourself ad tell me I am wrong...

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker


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 Post subject: Re: Cooper Anchors
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:08 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:17 pm
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Location: Austin Texas
Somewhere in my reading about the Cooper anchor it was advised to not put a shackle at the anchor to attach rope. The hole in the blue anchor is around 5/16" ID and I found that a 1/4" shackle isn't enough weight to affect the anchor's orientation. That was a quality sst shackle at West Marine, not some big honking shackle from China. There seems to be a lot of variation in shackle girth even in the same nominal size.
I ended up just splicing the rope since I was doing some other splices anyway.

Chris


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 Post subject: Re: Cooper Anchors
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:10 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:27 am
Posts: 70
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Hi Tony
Ok, reading what you did to test the different configurations makes sense.

I'll try it myself the next time I'm out by a beach.

Thanks
Colin


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 Post subject: Re: Cooper Anchors
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:14 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:27 am
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Location: Perth, Western Australia
Still related to anchors, but how are people storing the rope/chain I their kayaks?
In bags, on reels, frames?


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 Post subject: Re: Cooper Anchors
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:40 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
I coil the loose end of my inital 10 metres of line (which is permanently attached to the front crossbar) under the front hatch bungees, from aft, so when I grab it it all comes free.

The rest, anchor, chain, sea anchor and 25 metres of rope, live in a dry bag attached to the rear crossbar (if on my own), or in the rear cargo area (if travelling tandem). The extra 50 metres also fits in the bag for expedition trips.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker


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 Post subject: Re: Cooper Anchors
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:07 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:33 pm
Posts: 27
Location: San Antonio, TX
Ordered a blue one for the TI yesterday. I'll have to try my hand at rope splicing. Haven't done that since Boy Scouts :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Cooper Anchors
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:17 pm
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Location: Austin Texas
This video is where I learned. It's a piece of cake after you get the first layer in the correct place. I used blue painters tape on the ends of the loose braids and to mark the length for the thimble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UracDq6QAz4

Chris


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 Post subject: Re: Cooper Anchors
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:29 pm
Posts: 10
I use the smallest Fortress danforth style anchor on my tandem island. It holds like crazy. I originally bought he anchor for my Waverunner, and I also use it when I neee a stern anchor on my 20 foot powercat (at popular sandbars to keep the boat from swinging into other boats).

It is overkill for the kayak, but I already had it.

The anchor also has three feet of chain to keep the line flat in the bottom. Once set it is set.

It fits in the kayak forward hatch.


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 Post subject: Re: Cooper Anchors
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:48 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
Posts: 2893
Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
BTW, the blue Cooper anchor fits through any of the 8" hatches (you have to manouver it a bit as it passes through)

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker


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 Post subject: Re: Cooper Anchors
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:06 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Following a PM request for further details, I have attempted to put together a diagram of my anchorline retrieve set up, which I hope will be clearer.
Quote:
Bear with me as I try to explain my setup.
Tie a 4mm braided line to the front crossbar.
Attach an "O" shaped shackle (the ones which close with a screw collar on one side) to the bow fitting (where the handle is attached).
Thread the line through the shackle. This is your base anchor/bow line.
Make a loop on the other end of this line for attachment to other components (see below)
Take another line (at least 3mm and a different colour about 2 metres long.
Attach another "O" shackle to the end of this line, tying off the other end to the crossbar too.
Open this shackle and attach it to the anchor line >outside< the line coming from the bow shackle. This will be your retrieve line.
When you deploy the anchor attached to the anchor line, your TI will hang obediently off the anchor from the bow.
When you want to retrieve the anchor, pull on the retrieve line, which will bring back a loop of the anchor line to the cockpit.
As you bring more anchor line into the cockpit, you will then lift the anchor over the aka, and then tidy things up.

How to keep it all tidy?
I loop the anchor line and then feed it under the bow hatch bungee >from the mast end< so when I grab it, it all comes free.
I do the same with the shorter retrieve line.

Other anchor qear.
I also keep two other anchor lines, each with a loop on one end and a galvanized "D" shackle on the other, so they can all be joined together, one of 25 metres and the other of 50 metres (I leave the latter at home unless on offshore trips)
At the bottom end, I have a blue Cooper plastic anchor, with 3 metres of 12mm braided cord (Just had it lying around). (Never attach chain directly to a Cooper anchor, as its extra weight can cause the anchor to lie on its side and not dig into the seabed).
I then add 1.5 metres of chain if conditions require it, followed by either the basic 10, and the 25 and/or the 50 metre line, giving my a maximum total of 89.5 metres. If I ever need more than that, I shouldn't be anchoring there!!!

Image
This system enables the Island to ride correctly off its anchor, rather than being slewed around if the line is not attached at the bow, but by pulling the retrieve line, the anchor can be raised from the seated position

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker


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