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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:05 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
chrisj:
On most of the rivers we do there are areas where it's deeper and slow, then areas that are rapid and fast, the whole trick is to get those mirage drives out in time before hitting the rapids, there have been a few time where we didn't get the dives out quick enough, and quickly had to them lashed to the bottom of the hull as we went over wing dams or oyster beds that we didn't see beforehand. It's truly amazing how much abuse the mirage drives can take, I know all of our mirage drives are all scratched up on the sides from pulling the boats up on shore with the drives in, or scratching over oyster beds, but they still keep working fine, the trick is to use that bungy thingy and tie the fins against the hull if you can't remove them in time(or like in our case we don't bother removing them very often), of course a direct hit could likely take them out. However we have been kayaking for a very long time, and have never had any trouble with any mirage drives besides a slightly bent rod once in a while that was easily straightened, and we definitely don't baby them, we use them for all their worth.... As you can probably sense, we hate to paddle. Of course on some rivers with a lot of weeds, or very shallow you pretty much have to remove the drives and rudder and use the paddles. Actually when running rapids, you pretty much have to use the paddles, to steer, stay upright, and push off the occasional bolder, but as soon as its deep again we are peddling. It all depends on the river.
Actually the TI with the turbo fins works really well in shallow water if you shallow peddle, we often do that when we go thru mangrove trails, we typically raise the rudder, then shallow pedal thru the mangroves, using the paddles to steer.
Bob


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:03 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
CR Yaker wrote:
Does a boat have handles? No
Is that a safety concern? No
Can you install handles on a boat? Yes
Do you need to? No
Thus the same goes for an AI/TI. It's better and safer to handle in such a manner. Stop thinking of them as a portable kayak and more like a light boat, in my humble opinion.
I never use my AI as an adventure only without the amas. Why would I ? If I need smaller lighter and transportable without a trailer, I'm going to go with a smaller kayak. Otherwise it's a full trailer with the AI.


I think we have found Hobie's Costa Rican rep as part of their worldwide consultative process on this issue. :wink:
Most boats have a gunwale which acts as a handle all the way around the boat. A rotomolded hull has no edges that can be grabbed. Hobie's early attempts at adding handles were much like a gunwale indentation moulded into the hull. While this worked to a degree it was very uncomfortable. That was solved with the handles we have now.
Many of us realise the true versatility of this craft which is a great kayak as well as a great sailing trimaran. Removing the handles from only the Islands diminishes this versatility.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:04 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
NOHUHU wrote:
stringy wrote:
I wish I wasn't so vocal in my complaints about the water funnelling now!
I wanted a fix, not a complete removal.
Awrite! At least NOW we have a scapegoat. :twisted:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

And for that I am truly sorry! :cry:


Last edited by stringy on Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:19 pm 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Buckaroo wrote:
Will we recognize handleless 2015's in the future as "the year Hobie thought it was a good idea to remove handles from a 190 lb. boat that is normally moved by hand ?
Chris


Maybe it will become folklore like the wiper story Chekika previously quoted?
No matter how functional something is if it has an issue remove it entirely! Don't be bothered by trying to fix it.
I wonder if Homer is on the Hobie board? :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:06 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:25 pm
Posts: 387
Location: Jaco, Costa Rica
stringy wrote:
CR Yaker wrote:
Does a boat have handles? No
Is that a safety concern? No
Can you install handles on a boat? Yes
Do you need to? No
Thus the same goes for an AI/TI. It's better and safer to handle in such a manner. Stop thinking of them as a portable kayak and more like a light boat, in my humble opinion.
I never use my AI as an adventure only without the amas. Why would I ? If I need smaller lighter and transportable without a trailer, I'm going to go with a smaller kayak. Otherwise it's a full trailer with the AI.


I think we have found Hobie's Costa Rican rep as part of their worldwide consultative process on this issue. :wink:
Most boats have a gunwale which acts as a handle all the way around the boat. A rotomolded hull has no edges that can be grabbed. Hobie's early attempts at adding handles were much like a gunwale indentation moulded into the hull. While this worked to a degree it was very uncomfortable. That was solved with the handles we have now.
Many of us realise the true versatility of this craft which is a great kayak as well as a great sailing trimaran. Removing the handles from only the Islands diminishes this versatility.


True about the gunwhales on boats but you still have the molded handles on the front and back of the islands along with the akas, and you can install handles wherever you please. It's not a safety issue.

I agree, it's all about versatility, maybe it's time to admit that the islands are headed in a direction that are specific in their use, open water sailing. I'm guessing 90 percent or higher of TI use is very specific to certain conditions that involve the use of the sail. Other Hobie kayaks would be better in some of these other more extreme conditional uses not involving sailing.
And although I can appreciate Bob's adventurous spirit in his use of the Tandem, I would guess it's very far and few who also do so.
So it comes down to aesthetics and less is more, no handles, over 90 percent users on TI/AI.
To versatility in one kayak doing all, less than 10 percent, which these folks have an option yet of installing their own handles or buying other additional kayaks for specific uses.

For me, I'm indifferent to the outcome. I love the wet ride. So the older model is just fine.

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Mark
Tandem Island- 2013
2 - Sports - 2014


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 4:30 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
Posts: 2893
Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Here is my 10c...(coming from the standpoint that I am unlikely to afford to upgrade to a newer TI anyway)

1. I have hardly noticed the "handle geiser" problem in my 2012 TI, which leads me to suspect that users of the new elevated seats would have been in the same situation even if the handles were retained.

2. There have been many DIY suggestions on negating the geiser effect, the simplest of which I have read involves squeezing a suitably sized rubber ball under the middle of each handle, which spoiled the flow to the rear of the scoop.

3. I cannot remember ever using the side handles when moving my TI on land, finding that lifting at the aka knuckles enables use of both hands (without twisting my back, which has too much history of surgery to risk further intrusion). Interestingly, when helpful neighbours (with no previous exposure to Hobie Islands) retrieved my TI 100 yards from a tidal flat, they instinctively used the akas rather than the handles. (And of course there have been many suggestions about adding second handles to bow and stern to facilitate two people lifting at each end)
Image

4. I believe the crux of the issue is that while only a minority of users need the handles to remain, their needs are extremely important to them. Looks like Hobie has chosen to provide a (comfort) benefit for the great majority of owners who don't depend on the handles, calculating that the minority who really need the handles, can add them (presumably like those fitted on the amas) exactly where they need them). In my opinion, to simply write off the 2015 Islands as "useless" because of the handle issue, is a knee-jerk reaction which won't hold water (pun intended) in the harsh light of day. It would be interesting to eventually hear from Hobie regarding sales volumes of the Islands themselves, as well as handles...

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker


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