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 Post subject: Re: Reacher
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:59 am 
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Quote:
with every tack with or without the spinnaker deployed


Non-issue on tacking when the sail is not up. Simply slacken the halyard. The halyard does not need to be rigid.

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 Post subject: Re: Reacher
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:12 am 
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Location: Paoli Pennsylvania - East Coast USA
mmiller wrote:
..... The batten can easily be shortened and covered by tape.
Not a fix for the entanglement problem in my experience.....The line folds down the leach between batten and mast no matter how little the batten protrudes......I even cut mine down to where I was able to sew the end of the batten pocket closed and the entanglement issue persisted

The secret for "Success" is pulling the furling line hard enough - as one would on the water if confronted with a situation requiring an immediate furl. ..... Furl it gently/slowly, and mostly the problem does not happen. .... Give it a good yank and the problem happens every time.

Check out this vid: https://youtu.be/THl8TpzA1rY

I had not gone so far as to sew the batten to the pocket at that point, but the batten was *below* the two grommets at the end of the pocket..... That entanglement can be replicated over-and-over again.....The line is catching the batten, but it does not have to catch a protruding batten end.... it just has to push down the leech between the batten and the mast and then it becomes wrapped around the batten - batten pocket and all.

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Last edited by PeteCress on Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Reacher
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:13 pm 
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Location: Houston, TX
Pete I've never been able to get that video to play. Is this creating the halyard wrapping around the main or are you getting the halyard creating an unrecoverable entanglement with the batton?

Does this happen in all wind conditions?

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2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
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 Post subject: Re: Reacher
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 3:47 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:43 pm
Posts: 15
Please offer a spinnaker compliant main sail option. Maybe with a light duty folding boom that lets the main furl at least over half the way :)

As for comment earlier about the simple fixes, proficient operation, and sailing knowledge... I'm not confused. I prefer to sail without a rig or one that causes issues. It only takes a few hours on google to research all the problems and cons to the kit. This is my boat I don't wear shoes on, capiche? Need a more elegant solution than the big annoying rope swinging around in the wrong place unless I'm parked in my driveway, please.

If its a simple fix and knowledge needed to resolve this, be my guest. I'm willing to send $500 right now for a new main that isn't going to cause issues when I feel like running a spin and or jib. Please name a price. I like to romanticize things so lets just cross our fingers and hope one of your guys just happened to try this solution during R&D? Please tell me you have a simple sail that can fit on a thumb drive somewhere.

I really don't feel like making one myself. I feel the kit including a spinnaker compliant sail would be worth the extra expense. Please help refine this into a better v2 kit.


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 Post subject: Re: Reacher
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:36 pm 
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vetgam wrote:
Pete I've never been able to get that video to play. Is this creating the halyard wrapping around the main or are you getting the halyard creating an unrecoverable entanglement with the batton?

Does this happen in all wind conditions?
The second: entanglement with the batten - but the batten is in the sail, so I guess it's both at once.

Wind seems irrelevant. .... It's the speed with which the sail is furled.

What indications are you getting when you try to watch the vid?

Maybe I need to move it to YouTube.

I would like other people to see the vid and maybe tell me what I am doing wrong - because I am still clinging to the hope that all this is just me.

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2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
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 Post subject: Re: Reacher
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:35 pm 
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Location: Houston, TX
The video just sits there frozen when I click on the play icon.

Now I understand exactly how to recreate your situation. I will try again to try to make it happen and report back. Do you suppose this is an issue with the bearings in the mast head? Are you getting resistance to the spinning?

So how many documented cases of this do we have? Just Pete and Jim? Interesting both involve the new AI2s.

Anyone else? Could it be that this isn't a widespread issue?

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2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

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 Post subject: Re: Reacher
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:11 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
Posts: 2893
Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Troy Childs wrote:
Please offer a spinnaker compliant main sail option. Maybe with a light duty folding boom that lets the main furl at least over half the way :)

As for comment earlier about the simple fixes, proficient operation, and sailing knowledge... I'm not confused. I prefer to sail without a rig or one that causes issues. It only takes a few hours on google to research all the problems and cons to the kit. This is my boat I don't wear shoes on, capiche? Need a more elegant solution than the big annoying rope swinging around in the wrong place unless I'm parked in my driveway, please.

If its a simple fix and knowledge needed to resolve this, be my guest. I'm willing to send $500 right now for a new main that isn't going to cause issues when I feel like running a spin and or jib. Please name a price. I like to romanticize things so lets just cross our fingers and hope one of your guys just happened to try this solution during R&D? Please tell me you have a simple sail that can fit on a thumb drive somewhere.

I really don't feel like making one myself. I feel the kit including a spinnaker compliant sail would be worth the extra expense. Please help refine this into a better v2 kit.

Are you serious? What on earth would adding a boom (a folding one???) have to do with the halyard issue? Adding a boom would involve major engineering, apart from compromising the whole concept of sailing from a seated position (how high would the boom need to be if "ducking under" was impractical)?

I am going to wait and see how many other people cope with using the spin kit before I write it off as some sort of catastrophic failure by Hobie....

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2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker


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 Post subject: Re: Reacher
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:49 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
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Location: South Florida
tonystott wrote:
...What on earth would adding a boom (a folding one???) have to do with the halyard issue? Adding a boom would involve major engineering, apart from compromising the whole concept of sailing from a seated position (how high would the boom need to be if "ducking under" was impractical)?....

Tony, I know of 2 people over here (one in Tampa, FL, the other in Cleveland, OH) that are independently working on a boom for the tandem. I believe they are both folding.

Keith

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 Post subject: Re: Reacher
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:41 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Keith, I get that some people might be working towards adding a (folding) boom to their TI. Unfortunately, unless they intend that crew will; scamper from side to side ducking under the boom on tacks, the boom will need to be high enough that sail area will be lost, unless they intend to add a very long boom,. which in turn will interfere with a backstay/halyard.

Nevertheless, I would be delighted to find out that I am mistaken

Now I'm waiting for someone to fit Hobie Eclipse stepper drives to their TI and make a stand-up Island!
(Here's a link for those who haven't been paying attention :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCv1MeL ... tml5=False
[youtube2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCv1MeL0Cyo&nohtml5=False[/youtube2]

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2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker


Last edited by tonystott on Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Reacher
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:43 am 
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vetgam wrote:
Do you suppose this is an issue with the bearings in the mast head? Are you getting resistance to the spinning?
I was the first time the problem manifested - at the beach for the 1st time w/SpinKit. .....Assumed I had gotten sand in the bearing and that was the prob......But next day, at home, rotation was free but the prob persisted.

Quote:
So how many documented cases of this do we have? Just Pete and Jim? Interesting both involve the new AI2s.

Anyone else? Could it be that this isn't a widespread issue?
And therein lies the issue for me. ..... If this is such an inherant problem, why isn't the forum inundated with reports? ...... Part of me (albeit a smaller-and-smaller part by the day) is still holding out for some sort of User Error. ..... i.e. If it is not widespread, then I must be doing something wrong - but what??

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2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
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 Post subject: Re: Reacher
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:50 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:30 am
Posts: 406
Location: Clearwater, Fl
tonystott wrote:
I am going to wait and see how many other people cope with using the spin kit before I write it off as some sort of catastrophic failure by Hobie....
Even though I've already written it off as a catastrophic bad purchase, I am still eagerly awaiting feedback from others with the AI2 to hear what they think of the spinnaker. What I didn't realize is once you install the spinnaker, according to the "instructions" you're expected to sail with the mainsail furled halfway while tacking even when the spinnaker is stowed. And tacking is a good portion of what I do while out sailing. Plus, that only covers the rear halyard issues and not the front halyard tangles that WILL occur.

I wish that my observations were more positive as I was so looking forward to having a spinnaker on my AI2.

A sad thing is this discussion hasn't made it's way much to performance gained or fun factor with the spinnaker. Fun factor for me definitely went down significantly for most sailing. Once spinnaker deploys it feel pretty cool but not sure if there's much of a speed increase. Some, but not too much.

But yeah, if you have a spinnaker (especially the newer AI's), please share your experience.

Bargain hunters, Mine is still for sale ... $500 and you pay shipping. PM me.

Note to Matt: Maybe you should consider adding something to the "instructions" regarding trimming the battens. For people who don't come to the forum but purchase a kit.


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 Post subject: Re: Reacher
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:22 am 
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vetgam wrote:
The video just sits there frozen when I click on the play icon.
Just managed to replicate the problem using my Android tablet - looks like Picasa wants FlashPlayer and Android (and, maybe, Apple) doesn't do Flash anymore.

Copied it to YouTube: https://youtu.be/THl8TpzA1rY

Worked for me when I went at it with my smartphone.

YMMV.

Let me know...

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: Confirm@FatBelly.com


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 Post subject: Re: Reacher
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:54 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
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Location: Oceanside, California
There is no need to furl while sailing... only if you are possibly gybing down wind would the halyard be an issue. Certainly not an issue sailing upwind and tacking. If anything a slackened halyard would allow the sail to push outwards.

Jim does note a higher propensity to catch the halyard on the batten while furling the new AI (not a big issue on older AI and TI). He says simply cycle the furler in and out a couple times and it clears.

He knows it works... especially after sailing with it for a week down the coast of Florida during the EC last month.

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Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject: Re: Reacher
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:43 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:50 am
Posts: 39
tonystott wrote:
Keith, I get that some people might be working towards adding a (folding) boom to their TI. Unfortunately, unless they intend that crew will; scamper from side to side ducking under the boom on tacks, the boom will need to be high enough that sail area will be lost, unless they intend to add a very long boom,. which in turn will interfere with a backstay/halyard.

Nevertheless, I would be delighted to find out that I am mistaken

Now I'm waiting for someone to fit Hobie Eclipse stepper drives to their TI and make a stand-up Island!
(Here's a link for those who haven't been paying attention :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:



How long till we see a furling sail and spin kit for the eclipse?

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 Post subject: Re: Reacher
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:50 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 09, 2015 8:53 am
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Location: Paoli Pennsylvania - East Coast USA
mmiller wrote:
Jim does note a higher propensity to catch the halyard on the batten while furling the new AI (not a big issue on older AI and TI). He says simply cycle the furler in and out a couple times and it clears.
My experience has been that once it wraps around the #1 batten it's all locked in place.

Maybe I need to spend some more time working on that scenario, but the 3-4 times I have tried it has been unproductive.

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2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: Confirm@FatBelly.com


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