We have two great new accessories for Hobie Islands!

Wouldn't it be easier to just unstep the mast , clear the tangle, remove the mast topper and restep ? Intentional capsize seems an extreme way to fix a tangle line issue.

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2015 TI Hibiscus " Bazinga"
Harbor Freight modified trailer with TI cradles
Heavy duty scupper cart with cradle
Hobie tramps- black

Sounds right to me....But I would not feel comfortable with either one.

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2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

If you have a tangle that you can't recover you may find it very difficult to step the mast, even on land. The mainsail batton has likely tied down the mast, preventing stepping. You need slack at the top of the mast to lift it.

The sooner we document exactly how this more serious snag occurs (the unrecoverable one), the soooner we can find a real fix. It's still not clear what the chain of events are that makes it happen. Hopefully someone gets it on video at some point.

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Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

i was simply commenting on the picture and not other issues, but on that note i do see the first batten sticking up after many recommendations even by Matt to shorten it and tape the top, i know its not a bullet proof fix but it will make a big difference, and then there is always talk of (high winds) again the instructions say light winds, i will simply leave my spinnaker in the car on high wind days as there is absolutely no reason to have it rigged and when winds are light it will be rigged, i know sometimes you get surprise weather but if its always that questionable then maybe the spinnaker is not for everyone. maybe even if the weather comes in real fast and you dont want to step the mast, just untie the halyard and pull it down from the mast, you may loose the mast topper unless you find a way to tie it to the mast but that would be better than loosing control. i am sorry if my posts are taken the wrong way, its just driving me nuts that a large amount of complaints on here go against what Hobie recommends in the manual

At the risk of beating a dead horse, I will say it one more time: the halyard-batten-sail entanglement issue I am seeing can happen at any time: wind strength has nothing to do with it... AND...it can happen with the spinnaker deployed or snuffed - it does not matter.. ..... Likewise, eliminating batten protrusion does not fix it ..... It's strictly a centrifugal force thing as the mast/sail/batten rotate above a certain speed.

Rig it up in your yard on a no-wind day...... Don't even deploy the spinnaker..... Now ease the mainsheet, and pull the furling line hard - as if you were in a situation where you needed to furl the sail quickly. ..... Do this a few times and I predict you will get the infamous spinnaker halyard/#1 batten/main sail tangle.

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2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

I think you are correct. It is the speed of the furling and lack of tension on the main sheet line that helps create the tangle.. I have been using the Spinnaker in very light winds and I have been furling slowly with sheet tension with my eyes looking up. The Halyard line is also tight. With this deliberate movement and watching the lines, I have been able to avoid tangling even without trimming the batons, but, it is a pain to sail with these worries and complications.

Maybe a different upper mast section could resolve the issue?

You mean enough longer so that the halyard line clears the #1 batten?

FWIW, I have a workaround that, so far, seems to semi-resolve that particular issue by making the entanglement recoverable

The workaround consists of attaching 2 21" pices of 1/2" PVC tubing over the halyard as it enters and as it exits the mast topper.

Still tangles, but (so far, at least.... about 6 tries total) the tangle can be cleared from the cockpit by sheeting in the main with the furling line un-cleated - i.e. un-furling the sail.

There are other issues for me.... but those are my own personal preference/tradeoff problems and not Hobie's.

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2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

Thanks! .... Now I don't feel like The Lone Ranger anymore.... -)

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2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

I've read about the work around and various solutions. I'm just not so keen on the rear halyard/stay design. I think I'd rather have dyneema side stays coming off the topper. I wonder what angle can be achieved and if its a realistic solution to removing the halyard from the rear completely.

If I can move the halyard away from the bats and get away with 1400lb load on the aka's... sounds like I answered my own question.

Every time I try to come up with a reasonable work around that isn't barbaric, I find that I'd rather just deal with a couple kites on board. Between a foil for fun and a sled for chilling... no halyards or lines on deck (well not near me anyway) and no additional rig above my head.

How do you launch/retrieve the kites?

I have a 4m Peter Lynn inflatable foil that I used for body dragging back when kitesurfing was calling out to me... but once it is inflated, it stays "Live" until somebody walks over and deflates it while the operator stays on the control bar to keep it from taking off in the occasional shift/gust.

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2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

In fairness to Hobie and since many people interested in purchasing the spinnaker may look at this tread, I wanted to repost here my final thoughts after working out what appears to be all the problems encountered prior. Here is a copy of that post originally placed in the Reacher thread.

"Ok I had an interesting day driveway sailing today. I played with the spinnaker and my 2012 AI. I found that the reason I was having almost no entanglement issues was because of the speed that I furl. If I furl fast, I get a RECOVERABLE entanglement every time. If slow or moderate speed, I never got the entanglement. I tend to furl at a more moderate speed (maybe because it's an older boat and doesn't furl as fast) than Pete. Maybe because I'm weaker that Pete , I don't know. Bottom line I can make this earlier model AI entangle too if I furl fast. Each time I could just back out of my furl and re-furl a bit slower slower to recover. This would not present a problem if it happened on the water and appears preventable.

Interestingly, the batten is not catching the halyard on the first swing around the mast but rather the second. The mast leech angles towards the halyard-whether there is a
batten top or not. Somehow when we furl slower the leech/main top corner is not protruding enough to engage and catch the halyard.

On the issue of the backstay distorting the mains shape when sailing upwind, Matt appears to be right, if you create slack in the backstay, the main seems unaffected by the stay.

So... it appears that I can solve everything I am experiencing by modifying me rather than the boat.

I understand some felt that this thread was getting a bit negative. But I appreciated every post on it and any in the future. I just wanted to understand what was happening before I went offshore this year. I still love the sail and would make the purchase again, no question. I am getting use to the lines and if you run the spin sheets under the bungees on the hulls sided and then tie them and tuck them behind the set, they remain taunt and out of the way, even without tramps."


One last comment. This issue of boat complexity has been addressed to. You can simply go to a one sheet system and greatly simplify the boat and still be able to fully enjoy the spinnaker. See the thread "Hobie Spinnaker and Custom Jib Combination- Simple Version

Loving the sail.

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Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

Missing parts.

Well, Hobie did not include all the parts with their Hobie Island Spinnaker Kit. I contacted them directly, but they did not apologize or care to help. In fact, they told me to contact the dealer about the missing screws and Eyelet Posts. The package was sealed, inside another sealed package... I do not see how this is the dealer's responsibility. One thing is for sure HOBIE USA does NOT take responsibility for missing parts in their product if you contact them directly for a timely solution. In fact, they take so little responsibility they can't even apologize for missing parts.

I contacted Austin Kayak, where I purchased my Hobie Island Spinnaker Kit (local dealer doesn't carry them). Finger's crossed for parts to install my spinnaker. I can't believe Hobie USA just seriously told me to contact the dealer over this instead of just shipping me a few dollars of parts! These parts put holes in my boat and I don't feel like finding or sourcing another solution just to "make it work". I wanted a simple fast easy install but Hobie can't even include all the parts in their kits apparently nor fix the issue promptly.

I will continue to update over time on when the parts do, or don't come in a timely fashion from their dealer they so heavily rely on for customer service. I doubt Austin Kayak even knows what parts are in this kit. Don't they just sell a box of stuff? The kit is so new I highly doubt anything is going to happen other than Austin Kayak forwards my email to Hobie, so that Hobie can then mail me parts...

Has anyone else had missing parts from their kit? My box, bag, and bag within a bag were all unopened so I don't think this was an external issue with the product.

Wow! I hope your rather aggressive post does not reflect on your approach to Hobie. You appear to have already written off both Hobie and its dealers.....

I have no direct link to Hobie, but they consistently refer enquiries back through their dealers, as their head office is not geared to deal with individual members of the public. You seem annoyed that they won't change their long-standing operating procedure just because you ask them to.

Hobie has a reputation for good quality control, so I am sure they will be surprised that somebody appears to have dropped the ball on this occasion. I appreciate it is no comfort to you that the problem would seem to be teething troubles with a new product, given that Hobie relies on many suppliers of components. I am sure Hobie will sort out your issues promptly, and you will join the rest of us as heapy customers./

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker