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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:00 am 
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Location: Houston, TX
Yesterday I had an opportunity to water test the latest attempt to solve the spinnaker line snags. It worked perfectly in a wide range of winds (up to 16mph and should do well in any wind strength) and at all angles to the wind. At no time did the batton get anywhere near the spin lines. This works great and I can now just enjoy the spinnaker! Anyone having troubles should consider this.

Image

I can now take down the temporary zip ties and use the wider, stonger zip ties as you can see the pex tubing trying to move off center. I will probably shorten and paint the pex tubing black to give it a more finished look. It worked so well that I don't think it needs to be that long. Even with the pex tubing attached, it tucks nicely into the snuffer bag when transporting.

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Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

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Last edited by vetgam on Sun Jul 17, 2016 7:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:53 am 
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vetgam wrote:
Yesterday I had an opportunity to water test the latest attempt to solve the spinnaker line snags. It worked perfectly in a wid range of winds (up to 16mph and should do well in any wind strength) and at all angles to the wind. At no time did the batton get anywhere near the spin lines. This works great and I can now just enjoy the spinnaker finally! Anyone having troubles should consider this.

I can now take down the temporary zip ties and use the wider, stonger zip ties as you can see the pex tubing trying to move off center. I will probably shorten and paint the pex tubing black to give it a more finished look. It worked so well that I don't think it needs to be that long. Even with the pex tubing attached, it tucks nicely into the snuffer bag when transporting.


That looks perfect !! and easy ! I want to do that on my Spinnnaker ! Brilliant !


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 7:52 am 
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I slid the pex tubing backwards so that there was and even amount of the tubing showing for and aft of the mast topper. Second day on the water with this adjustment and again, it worked perfectly.

I believe it was FE who suggested this alternative to just hanging the tubing from the topper. If so, credit goes to him.

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Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:21 am 
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vetgam wrote:
I slid the pex tubing backwards so that there was and even amount of the tubing showing for and aft of the mast topper. Second day on the water with this adjustment and again, it worked perfectly.

I believe it was FE who suggested this alternative to just hanging the tubing from the topper. If so, credit goes to him.


Fantastic !! You're mods are the best ! Thanks a bunch !! I truck top my TI, so, this simple, easy fix seems the best for me.
Maybe you should be a consultant to Hobie ? :shock:
As you always do, please post a few detailed pics of the end configuration, so, I can copy you exactly. lol :D


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 8:04 pm 
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Here are the pictures showing finished mast top. I did not paint it black. Spray paint tends to rub off plastic and might stain the sail. Didn't want to risk it.

The pex tubing sticks out about 6 inches on each side.

Image

Took a couple of Hobie metal brackets that I bent to shape aND screwed them to the topper to prevent the pex tubing from slipping to one side or the other. Working well. The zip ties at each end are not really necessary.

Image

Image

The longer mast top still goes into the snuffer well for transport.

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Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:41 am 
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Good job. Looks like you can remove the two Hobie supplied sheaves up there since you created a ginormous sheave at your mast top. You might experience some friction and kinks over time as the line ages and hockles. When that happens (a few years so don't go out and buy it today) get some high tech single braid line to replace it, the high tech line is made of stuff that is essentially teflon so it will run smoothly--you can also get smaller diameter since it is also stronger.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 7:01 am 
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Took advantage of my recent cortisone injection to spend the day out on the water. Conditions were very mild, and my TI rarely hit 4 knots. In those gentle conditions, it was possible to tighten the luff of the spinnaker and get quite good beam reaching performance (now my favourite point of sail). But it was good to gain more experience with the spinnaker, and I had no hang-ups or tangles.

One thing I did discover back at the launch site though. Due to my need for a walking stick, stepping and unstepping the mast in the shallows isn't doable for me, so I do it while the TI is still on the trailer. This of course means lifting the mast to waist level while keeping it in column. For some reason, there didn't seem to be enough slack in the halyard/backstay, so it was putting downward pressure on the mast while I tried to lift it. I almost had a catastrophe last time, so now I add a temporary extension to the halyard, removing it once the mast is up.

Does anyone else experience this situation, or am I doing something wrong?

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker and Hangkai outboard
only cool people follow the (non-magnetic) titanium weight-loss program! lol.)


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 7:13 am 
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Location: Paoli Pennsylvania - East Coast USA
tonystott wrote:
...stepping and unstepping the mast in the shallows isn't doable for me, so I do it while the TI is still on the trailer. This of course means lifting the mast to waist level while keeping it in column. For some reason, there didn't seem to be enough slack in the halyard/backstay, so it was putting downward pressure on the mast while I tried to lift it. I almost had a catastrophe last time, so now I add a temporary extension to the halyard, removing it once the mast is up.

Does anyone else experience this situation, or am I doing something wrong?
I terminated the halyard with a trigger snap and put a screw-link on the spinnaker - making for quick/easy attachment/detachment. The trigger snap also allowed easy attachment to (IIRC) the mainsheet (temporary extension) while rigging.

The other approach was to insert the mast without the spinnaker top, and then attach the spinnaker top while the boat was turned on it's side for removal of the beach wheels.

I think I preferred #2 because it simplified mast insertion.

But it sounds like you have to go directly from the trailer to water of some depth instead of being able to rig at the waterline on the beach/shore - so maybe #2 is moot.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 5:37 pm 
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Thanks Pete, I prefer to have all connections to a sail as soft as possible, to minimise chafe or injury from sail flogging.

It is not the depth of the water, but the lack of sure footing on wet sand. I can manger ok on the hard.

Thank goodness when I park my bum in the skipper seat, everything is back to normal :D

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker and Hangkai outboard
only cool people follow the (non-magnetic) titanium weight-loss program! lol.)


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 7:39 pm 
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Tony, I have the same difficulty with line tension when stepping the mast. It is worse with the pex tubing on the mast topper. It's as though there is 6 inches less spinnaker line than we really need.

What I am doing is placing the mast topper on the mast, lifting the mast vertically- placing the base on the ground. Then i look for line snags and make sure all lines are clear of obsticles. I then pull the head of the spinnaker sail out of the snuffer about 2 feet. Now I raise the mast straight up and I have to place it into the mast receiver at a slight angle and straighten it out as I click it in place.

No real solutions here. I can't see where we can add extra line at any particular spot along the spin lines without issues. The only real solution seems to buy new spinn line that is just slightly longer.

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Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 12:25 am 
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Greg, no need for any expenditure. I just undo the bowline at the head of the spinnaker Add a piece of old line to the head instead, and then join the top of the old line to the bottom of the halyard. Doesn't matter what sort of line or how long (I haven't even bothered to find out how long my temporary extension line is, maybe 10 feet).

Once the mast is up, I remove the extension line. I thought about adding snapshackles, but doing a few bowlines is a doddle.

Once back on the trailer, I leave the extension hooked up ready for the next time I raise the mast.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker and Hangkai outboard
only cool people follow the (non-magnetic) titanium weight-loss program! lol.)


Last edited by tonystott on Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 5:49 am 
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Quote:
Once the mast is up, I remove the extension line.


If the extention is at the head of the spinnaker, how do you remove it once it is raised. Not sure I understand.

Adding line to the spinn head sounds like the simple solution. I will give that a try.

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Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:24 am 
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First off let me appologize for this long winded response, but with the release of the much anticipated spinnaker kit, Hobie has opened up a whole new door to the entire industry. We are only seeing the tip of the iceberg here, as creative people begin to realize the true capabilities of these amazing craft the flood gates will soon open.

Unfortunately, all this is incredibly difficult to explain, read no further if your bored.

One reason I converted my spinnaker halyard line from the big long loop to the back of the boat over to a separate rear stay line, and re-routed the spinnaker halyard line so it comes down right next to the mast is for ease of stepping the mast.
Obviously my setup is slightly different from the standard Hobie setup since I have two separate halyards (one for the spin and the other for the jib), and I run both my jibs and spinnakers on roto furling rigid masts.
The function is the same, but boy is it hard to explain I'll try to explain in as few words as possible (too late).
I wanted the ability to be able to kayak inland on rivers with all the sails down, AMA's folded in and pulled up out of the water (so they don't drag in the water), with the motors tilted up so I can quietly kayak river inlets using the mirage drives. I don't neccessarily like leaving all the sails and the AMA back at the camp site. I typically get my fill of the quiet kayaking pretty quickly so then I want to head out to big open water where I can open her up, (her being my TI in full sailing mode in big water). This normally involves passing under several low bridges. Sometimes our campsite/launch point can be a ways inland.
Once I get out into open water past all the bridges, the quiet (2mph) kayaking mode gets boring very quickly, and If I don't have my AMA's and sails along with (sitting on the trailer back at the campsite), I start cursing at myself profusely.
So instead of causing a ruckus, most of the time I just bring all that crap along.
Once I clear all the low bridges and get offshore, I stop, let the AMA's down and swing them out. I then raise the main mast (with the mast topper already installed (I seldom remove the mast topper).
I then need to climb to the back and clip the rear static stay line to the back of the boat. If I'm going to use just the jib I also clip the jib halyard to the top of the jib. I then hoist the jib with the halyard, once up I lock the halyard into the cleats onto the front X-bar and stuff all that extra line into the front left mesh pocket for the day. I'm now ready for full blown offshore sailing in adventure mode. All my control and furler lines are just left rigged all the time on the boat and never removed,(takes around 5-10 minutes to convert the boat while out on the water).
I usually make a decision right then and there if I'm going to be using the spinnaker that day or not. If the winds are below 12mph, then the spinnaker stays down (just laying down in the side of the cockpit). The only downside to spinnakers is the fastest they can possibly go is 1=1 with windspeed. If your already traveling 2x or 3x windspeed, they are giant airbrakes. Keep in mind I typically only ever go out in winds under 8mph), so the spin is seldom used.
I then go out and have my fun which usually involves hanging out at some remote sand bar that can be many miles away (often meeting up with powerboat friends).
Once I've had my fill it's time to go back I get back to the inlet, drop the jib and clip the jib and spin halyard line to a handy spot on the front crossbar. Climb back to the back of the boat and unclip the rear static stay (which is really just an anti rotation device for the mast topper). I then lift the main mast out and lay it down in the boat (with the mast topper still attached), I then put my motors up, fold the AMA's in and lash them up in the air (so their not touching the water). Then I make my way back inland to wherever I came from.

Now the reason for doing everything this way. Around here anyway there are two launches that I can access big water from directly, and they are 5-6 miles from where we like to hang out. By rigging the boat in this manner, my number of possible launch points increases to a hundred in the area. Basically any kayak launch in the area (nearly every one of them eventually leads to big water (some a mile or so inland).
Obviously everything here is self imposed, and revolves around the fact that I love kayaking up to the point where I see the big water and get really bored going two mph. And the fact that anything of interest to me can be 15 miles away (the area is gigantic). I'm simply not wiiling to pedal my kayak at two mph the 20 or so miles up to Egmont Key, I like kayaking, but not that much (lol)).

A really good example is when we go up to Crystal river. It's really fun to launch and quietly kayak around the springs. Great fun, but you can see with your own eyes the big ocean 5 miles down the river calling your name, beckoning you.
Sure I can peddle on out there, but that takes a whole afternoon at 2mph.
I like my setup much more.

I have no idea what all this means to anyone else, I'm just throwing it out there hoping to give you guys some insight on how to rig your boats so you can enjoy the best of all worlds versatality wise. One boat that does it all (lol). No wind, no problem, no good launches , no problem, low bridges everywhere, no problem, high seas open water, no problem, ability to travel great distances at acceptable speeds (none of this 2mph crap), again no problem.
And best yet I can car top the whole works if I need to.
I'm just stating here, there is no other craft available on the planet that can do what a TI can do (bar none).
Even with all my mods the dang boat is still cheaper than an entry level WR17, and half the cost of a WETA, yet does so much more.
I just gotta say to Hobie, "what they have created is light years beyond anything on the market today, and on anyones drawing boards for the forseeable future", Just sayin I'm darn impressed, the thing pushes all my buttons.
You can easily do as little or as much modification wise, to turn your TI into an incredible craft (blows my mind anyway)
FE


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:53 am 
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vetgam wrote:
Quote:
Once the mast is up, I remove the extension line.


If the extention is at the head of the spinnaker, how do you remove it once it is raised. Not sure I understand.

Adding line to the spinn head sounds like the simple solution. I will give that a try.

I have corrected my original post. I tie the extra line to the bottom of the halyard and the top of the sail. Once the mast is up (not the sail), I reattach the halyard to the top of the sail. There is enough slack for this to be done while the head of the sail is in the mouth of the snuffer. The extra line goes back in my car...

Bob, I understand why you prefer a separate backstay, but the >only< shortcoming from using s one piece backstay/halyard was my problem stepping the mast, but temporarily lengthening this line solves the problem simply.

For a few moments (of madness? lol) after reading of vetgam's efforts in particular, I had considered tying a small jib to the existing black tab 3/4 up the mainsail,, adding a tack system like Hobie's spinnaker version, and then having a self-tacking triangular line for the clew. By having one end of the latter running through a cleat, it would even be possible to open out the jib for reaching or even running. Furling would be interleaved with the mainsail once the tack was eased. It is all clear in my mind.....

Nah, two sails are enough for me. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker and Hangkai outboard
only cool people follow the (non-magnetic) titanium weight-loss program! lol.)


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 7:53 am 
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Tony:
Ahhhh but the question still remains, should that second sail be a jib or a spin. Because of the versatalty of the craft, just choose your own preference on that day in the conditions you encounter. That's the only point I've been trying to get across. The sky is the limit on what you can do with these amazing craft.
FE


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