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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:13 am 
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Location: Caloundra Queensland Australia
I am a newcomer to this forum and to Hobie Islanders. I have found this forum to be extremely helpful and all you guys have a wealth of experience and are sharing it with all, especially the newbies like me, to help us learn more about our boats and what we can do to ad to the enjoyment of our Islanders. In my humble opinion, a guy has written an article in good faith. There will always be a point or two of difference in any article like this. But I think it was written as a guide.
What a shame those with the experience and knowledge are openly disagreeing on a point. (No pun intended)
Agin in my view those little differences could be better solved by PMs to each other so that us newbies don't become more confused with mixed messages. I am not criticising anyone in particular as I think you all have a wealth of knowledge but if we get mixed messages, it may be time, at least for me, to look to other sailing forums. Just my opinion!
Cheers


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:03 am 
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Welcome to the forum, Waggers00. We usually, 95% of the time, do not have strong differences of opinion.

Keith

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:31 am 
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Chekika wrote:
Welcome to the forum, Waggers00. We usually, 95% of the time, do not have strong differences of opinion.

Keith

As a relative newcomer, One of the things that I really appreciate about this forum is high degree of civilty towards one another, even during the discussion of strongly held, divergent opinions. This is a forum that seems to appreciate a good discussion, based on the merits of the arguments.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:25 pm 
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Chekika wrote:
The diagram does not come from the Hobie Island literature. If you simply Google "points of sail" you do not see any diagram like that. That is what Tony and myself are complaining about. How difficult is it to change your write up to a more traditional points-of-sail diagram, after all, this is a write up for beginners, right?

Keith



http://www.hobiecat.com/articles/basics-sailing,182/

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Last edited by Hogman on Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:48 pm 
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Sorry to get into such trivial stuff Hogman, but I said, the points-of-sail image does not come from the Hobie island literature. I was not doubting Spooks claim that it was Hobie--he said it twice. From Hobie or not, that image does not make it a good image of points-of-sail.

Your link is a very good write up of sailing a catamaran and island. In the article itself, there is zero mention of the downwind so called "dead area" or "dead down" area. Also, in that article, there is an interesting statement: "The Hobie 14 sails well on a run, but because the Hobie 16 and 18 carry jib sails, most skippers prefer to generate more speed by reaching and thus making use of apparent wind." I believe the Islands with their single main sail, will be more like a Hobie 14.

Keith

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Last edited by Chekika on Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:59 pm 
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Location: Brisbane Australia
Spooks article is to help new Island owners/beginners learn how to sail.
Newbies don't tend to have barber haulers, or other devices to hold the sail out.
Sailing directly downwind is generally slower than sailing just off the wind.
For a beginner, sailing directly downwind in stronger winds is not such a good idea. Without a boom or barber hauler or other devices, the sail tends to fold up on itself and loses power. Also because the wind direction is never really constant, it can result in an accidental gybe, and in stronger winds this can result in damage to the sail and mast.

Here is a portion of the article that Tony was referring to and explains it very well for beginners.
Quote:
Often referred to as the ‘Don’t Go Zone’, running can be a very dangerous point of sail. Since the stern of the boat is already “in the eye” of the wind, any sudden wind changes or mistakes while steering could cause the boat to accidentally gybe causing the sail to swing dangerously across the boat to the other side. Although the Hobie AI sail does not have a boom, an accidental gybe can tear the sail in high wind conditions. Due to this, it is often advised to beginner sailors to sail 10-20 degrees off of a true run until they gain enough experience to be able to safely handle it. In addition, unless you have rigged a whisker pole, you can’t get your get your sail all the way out to the side so a point of sail of 150-170 degrees presents more sail area to the wind.
Depending on the wind speed and conditions, you may to get to your down wind destination quicker by using a series of alternating broad reaches. When gybing, pull the sail to the center half way through the turn then gradually let it out on the other side as the gybe is completed. This will reduce the risk of tearing the sail.

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Last edited by Hogman on Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:18 pm 
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I'd like to add this quickie to the suggested reading list for all new owners/sailors.

http://www.hobiecat.com/articles/four-cardinal-rules,181/

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:10 pm 
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Location: Australia
Quote:
AVERAGING 10.27 knots for 18:15 minutes


Hrmm... I don't have any problem believing this at all. In the right conditions (tide direction, wind speed and water action) this is certainly achievable in the new AI. Carl and I would have achieved a similar average (for a good while at least) on our first Fraser expedition in the AIs... going against the tide!

Not getting into anything else being debated. I don't bother myself with theory and have found that its pretty easy to figure out how to squeeze the most performance out of the AI just through trial and error alone. Seems like a pretty informative article for those interested in the basics though.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:29 pm 
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Yakass wrote:
Quote:
AVERAGING 10.27 knots for 18:15 minutes


Hrmm... I don't have any problem believing this at all. In the right conditions (tide direction, wind speed and water action) this is certainly achievable in the new AI. Carl and I would have achieved a similar average (for a good while at least) on our first Fraser expedition in the AIs... going against the tide!

Not getting into anything else being debated. I don't bother myself with theory and have found that its pretty easy to figure out how to squeeze the most performance out of the AI just through trial and error alone. Seems like a pretty informative article for those interested in the basics though.


Good for your new club members who have never sailed before and that is all it is. just a helpful bit of info to give them something to get started with. It's on the seqic.com.au web site of you want to download it or send your new guys there.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:56 pm 
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Yeah, for sure, helpful info for beginners if they want to get an idea how it all works. Kudos for putting it together.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:29 pm 
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Location: Victor Harbor, South Australia
Good stuff Spook, my sailing companion is soaking it all up. Please don't think I am being picky because when doing articles like those you have generously prepared and lodged, there is always something that can be added. My sailing mate has bought a wind vane as he thought it would give him the actual wind direction. As I have pointed out to him...If you are stationary it will show you where the wind is coming from (true wind), if you are moving it will give you the APPARENT wind, which is a vector of the true wind and your heading.

Cheers Ian( now living in Victor Harbor, South Australia.

If it works ok, modify it anyway!

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 5:13 pm 
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Although I'm not new to sailing I am new to Islands and boomless sails. I realize that this is an old thread so the link to the article is no longer active. Does anyone have a current link to the article?

thanks

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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 3:26 pm 
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I was also very interested to read this guide. I was able to find it with the internet archive. I'm not sure if this link will work long term but if not you can probably look it up again.
https://web.archive.org/web/20160706163 ... sail-trim/


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 4:38 am 
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maltrease wrote:
I was also very interested to read this guide. I was able to find it with the internet archive. I'm not sure if this link will work long term but if not you can probably look it up again.
https://web.archive.org/web/20160706163 ... sail-trim/



Thank you very much.

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